Mercedes-AMG F1 W10 EQ Power+

[Just_a_fan]

The best bit of that video is his confirming that the fiddly bits that so often get this forum excited are really just "aero porn". Sure, they do a little bit but it's just a little bit. The sort of "it helps and we can do It so let's do it" stuff rather than the "this makes the car a front runner" stuff.

Interesting that he keeps referring to the leading edge of the floor when discussing the Y250 vortex but also confirm the barge boards are directing outwards and enhancing it. How does it get to the leading edge of the floor if the barge boards are all pushing it outwards? A bit of verbal slight of hand by him, I think. I think he's made sure that the cape and associated structures aren't discussed as they would most likely be creating the floor's leading edge flow structures.

[SiLo]

The bargeboards are guiding it around the sidepod and under the front part of the floor. It's helped by more vortexes created within the bargeboard area that join the Y250 and essentially make it stronger. Giving it more power means it can run the length of the car easily without any flow detachment or petering out into a messy flow.

[mmred]

The bargeboards are guiding it around the sidepod and under the front part of the floor. It's helped by more vortexes created within the bargeboard area that join the Y250 and essentially make it stronger. Giving it more power means it can run the length of the car easily without any flow detachment or petering out into a messy flow.

I suspect the whole assumption that a stronger y250 vortex is what you want is plain wrong.
I am an aerodynamic
The best vortex is no vortex
Those statements are journalists simplification that really do misguide the fans
Since a vortex is inevitable the best vortex is one you can control and with which you can control other vortexes to prevent total flow detachment in some areas

From the y250 I can. Say they don't make it stronger (the flaps actually are shaped to make it softer ) they do guide it trough the whole car with bargeboard.
It also gets stronger cause inevitably accumulates other vortexes that prevent fwing from stalling

That s it
Not
"We want it more powerful"
We want to control it cause it s like thanos


The only benefit that comes to mind is that
In the floor area it has a potential beneficial downwash effect that s why they try to take part of the air with those sidepods near the invents but that air may even mostly come from other laminar from the underside flow cause the bargeboards really do expell the y250 outwards to the moon

[Just_a_fan]

The bargeboards are guiding it around the sidepod and under the front part of the floor.

Which is it? Around the sidepod or under the floor? It can't do both. There are a number of vortices being produced but they all seem to be in front of the barge board (or made by the barge boards themselves) and so are being sent outwards. I'm of the opinion that the Y250 vortex doesn't go under the car but is used to control tyre wake. The W10 appears to be making a stronger Y250 vortex as they have much more flap in this area than previously. This strong vortex, directed outwards by the barge boards, would "clear the way" for cleaner air from the nose to be fired in to the floor's leading edge.

The video asks as many questions as it answers!

[SectorOne]

Old but gold. My guess is Mercedes vortex is going the same exact path as this,

[Dipesh1995]

Not the greatest quality but if you look closely, you can just about make out the trajectory of the Y250 vortex core.

[SmallSoldier]

Old but gold. My guess is Mercedes vortex is going the same exact path as this,

That’s an awesome video... Watching the actual vortexes... Nuts!

And you are right... Old but Gold! Thanks for sharing! (If only we could find one from the last couple of years!!!)


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[SiLo]

The bargeboards are guiding it around the sidepod and under the front part of the floor.

Which is it? Around the sidepod or under the floor? It can't do both. There are a number of vortices being produced but they all seem to be in front of the barge board (or made by the barge boards themselves) and so are being sent outwards. I'm of the opinion that the Y250 vortex doesn't go under the car but is used to control tyre wake. The W10 appears to be making a stronger Y250 vortex as they have much more flap in this area than previously. This strong vortex, directed outwards by the barge boards, would "clear the way" for cleaner air from the nose to be fired in to the floor's leading edge.

The video asks as many questions as it answers!

Sorry I meant it would go around the sidepod, and keep flow underneath it from interfering (the floor area) so it keeps lower flow pushed underneath the floor. It's just a way of separating flow paths into areas that you want and in a controlled manner.

[SiLo]

The bargeboards are guiding it around the sidepod and under the front part of the floor. It's helped by more vortexes created within the bargeboard area that join the Y250 and essentially make it stronger. Giving it more power means it can run the length of the car easily without any flow detachment or petering out into a messy flow.

I suspect the whole assumption that a stronger y250 vortex is what you want is plain wrong.
I am an aerodynamic
The best vortex is no vortex
Those statements are journalists simplification that really do misguide the fans
Since a vortex is inevitable the best vortex is one you can control and with which you can control other vortexes to prevent total flow detachment in some areas

From the y250 I can. Say they don't make it stronger (the flaps actually are shaped to make it softer ) they do guide it trough the whole car with bargeboard.
It also gets stronger cause inevitably accumulates other vortexes that prevent fwing from stalling

That s it
Not
"We want it more powerful"
We want to control it cause it s like thanos


The only benefit that comes to mind is that
In the floor area it has a potential beneficial downwash effect that s why they try to take part of the air with those sidepods near the invents but that air may even mostly come from other laminar from the underside flow cause the bargeboards really do expell the y250 outwards to the moon

If it's more powerful, it can be controlled and energise flow further down the car. They absolutely want to make it more powerful, they even say so in the video.

[mmred]

The bargeboards are guiding it around the sidepod and under the front part of the floor. It's helped by more vortexes created within the bargeboard area that join the Y250 and essentially make it stronger. Giving it more power means it can run the length of the car easily without any flow detachment or petering out into a messy flow.

I suspect the whole assumption that a stronger y250 vortex is what you want is plain wrong.
I am an aerodynamic
The best vortex is no vortex
Those statements are journalists simplification that really do misguide the fans
Since a vortex is inevitable the best vortex is one you can control and with which you can control other vortexes to prevent total flow detachment in some areas

From the y250 I can. Say they don't make it stronger (the flaps actually are shaped to make it softer ) they do guide it trough the whole car with bargeboard.
It also gets stronger cause inevitably accumulates other vortexes that prevent fwing from stalling

That s it
Not
"We want it more powerful"
We want to control it cause it s like thanos


The only benefit that comes to mind is that
In the floor area it has a potential beneficial downwash effect that s why they try to take part of the air with those sidepods near the invents but that air may even mostly come from other laminar from the underside flow cause the bargeboards really do expell the y250 outwards to the moon

If it's more powerful, it can be controlled and energise flow further down the car. They absolutely want to make it more powerful, they even say so in the video.

Sorry if I believe my aerodinamic professors at uni and not the video.

If it is too much powerful it just causes drag

It is important because it is powerful but if they couldn't have it they would gladly not have it at all. It is indeed a regulation effect.

I add, since it s there, they do use it to expell part of the front tyre wake from the radiators, and part of the fwing too, at least the lower part, this is done helped by the bargeboards that do enrich it or deviate it

But they don't simply want it more powerful. As I said it s more complex, much more.
You want cleaner air to the radiators and the diffuser and bottom of the car that s the goal
But the strategy is complex
From the shape of the flaps that diminish at the y250 u see they want it softer but it is inevitable cause they need flaps so they have it and move it around with other vortexes sometimes making it softer sometimes adding vorticity in the same direction....


Hugely complex not
More powerful

There are reasons behind this complexity, in the strategy with vortexes, if you want so I ll explain otherwise have faith.

[zibby43]

Hugely complex not
More powerful

Without power, how do you ensure that there is enough energy left to work the critical rear aerodynamic surfaces of the car by the time the air arrives there?

[Just_a_fan]

If it is too much powerful it just causes drag

F1 cars are hugely draggy anyway. A bit more from a useful vortex isn't going to be a problem. The problem is if you have unhelpful vortices as these are both draggy and unhelpful.

[mmred]

Hugely complex not
More powerful

Without power, how do you ensure that there is enough energy left to work the critical rear aerodynamic surfaces of the car by the time the air arrives there?

Vortexes hardly help creating downforce
The y250 doesn't even touch the car anymore after the bargeboards
But it is used to seal the under front with countrrrotating vortices from the inside

No you don't want more powerful than it is, from the shape of the fwing flaps it s clear you want to keep it lower as possible and softer but it cant be soft cause you need downforce and therefore huge flaps there ( also because the air s gonna meet the future anyway ) so you get this extra drag called prandtl wake vortices at the tips....

There are math equation behind its origin and keeping the geometrical discontinuity at the tips soft means you want it soft

[mmred]

If it is too much powerful it just causes drag

F1 cars are hugely draggy anyway. A bit more from a useful vortex isn't going to be a problem. The problem is if you have unhelpful vortices as these are both draggy and unhelpful.

It is true that they are draggy
But drag is like money you can spend or not thanks to the engine

You don't want to spend it if it literary does already too much it's undesired but inevitable work

They are so draggy that tough they generate more downforce in the rain than in the 90s they basically can't drive there anymore due to the total lack of visibility formed by water raised by the drag wake

[zibby43]

Hugely complex not
More powerful

Without power, how do you ensure that there is enough energy left to work the critical rear aerodynamic surfaces of the car by the time the air arrives there?

Vortexes hardly help creating downforce
The y250 doesn't even touch the car anymore after the bargeboards
But it is used to seal the under front with countrrrotating vortices from the inside

No you don't want more powerful than it is, from the shape of the fwing flaps it s clear you want to keep it lower as possible and softer but it cant be soft cause you need downforce and therefore huge flaps there ( also because the air s gonna meet the future anyway ) so you get this extra drag called prandtl wake vortices at the tips....

There are math equation behind its origin and keeping the geometrical discontinuity at the tips soft means you want it soft

I wasn't necessarily talking about downforce, generally, I was talking about the strength of the vortices themselves, where they are going, and why you want them to go there.

My basic understanding is, assuming we're talking about properly designed aero, there are good and bad vortices.

And sending "good" vortices over/under other aero surfaces provides certain beneficial/sought-after effects. Because these good vortices are areas of high energy flow, they can be used to combat/lessen boundary layer separation over particular wing surfaces. I thought there was value using in using these vortices to keep flow energized and attached to a wing or other aero element downstream.

And as you alluded to above, vortices can also be used seal the underfloor and manage flow direction (e.g., guiding a cleaner, more powerful flow to the critical diffuser area).