2022 Tyres Thread

Here are our CFD links and discussions about aerodynamics, suspension, driver safety and tyres. Please stick to F1 on this forum.
Just_a_fan
Just_a_fan
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Joined: 31 Jan 2010, 20:37

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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I'm interested to know why the Pirelli tyre test was at Paul Ricard rather than Catalunya. I would have thought the tyre data they have over the years at tests at Catalunya would be useful to see where the new tyres stand. Or are they basing their comparison on this year's tyres at this year's race?

One has to hope that the choice of testing location won't affect the eventual tyres adversely.
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ncx
ncx
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Joined: 20 Jul 2019, 13:11

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Maybe because the Paul Ricard has plenty of runoff areas and not that many big kerbs? 😉

izzy
izzy
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Joined: 26 May 2019, 22:28

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Just_a_fan wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 13:06
I'm interested to know why the Pirelli tyre test was at Paul Ricard rather than Catalunya. I would have thought the tyre data they have over the years at tests at Catalunya would be useful to see where the new tyres stand. Or are they basing their comparison on this year's tyres at this year's race?

One has to hope that the choice of testing location won't affect the eventual tyres adversely.
my guess would be that there are lots of different circuit configurations at Paul Ricard, as it was done as a test circuit wasn't it, so they can dial in various loads, and also sprinklers if they want to try them in the damp/wet
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Scorpaguy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010, 05:05

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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I have long advocated for a shorter sidewall, but after seeing the new 18-inchers on an actual car....HIDEOUS. Both FE and LMP make even shorter sidewalls look good. I am hoping that a new wheel design and aero changes make the the wheel/tyre combo look better. I assume the suspension guys also have MUCH work to do.

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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I assume the suspension guys also have MUCH work to do.
A Ton. Todays cars use the sidewalls as their springing. Should be quite the change.
My big wonder is about the packaging. Will we see some kind of tiny coilovers?
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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Scorpaguy
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Joined: 04 Mar 2010, 05:05

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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strad wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 19:36
I assume the suspension guys also have MUCH work to do.
A Ton. Todays cars use the sidewalls as their springing. Should be quite the change.
My big wonder is about the packaging. Will we see some kind of tiny coilovers?
...assuming they could get the metallurgy correct...torsion bars could be neatly packaged in a F1 chassis.

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strad
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Joined: 02 Jan 2010, 01:57

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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True...I believe they used bars in the past.
To achieve anything, you must be prepared to dabble on the boundary of disaster.”
Sir Stirling Moss

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Shrieker
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Joined: 01 Mar 2010, 23:41

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Why do we need these ugly wheels, again ?
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JordanMugen
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Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Shrieker wrote:
17 Sep 2019, 04:33
Why do we need these ugly wheels, again ?
So the wheel and tyre size is consistent between Le Mans Prototype and Formula One.
Scorpaguy wrote:
16 Sep 2019, 18:46
after seeing the new 18-inchers on an actual car....HIDEOUS. Both FE and LMP make even shorter sidewalls look good.
The sidewalls are approximately the same size as a LMP: a 720mm diameter tyre on a 18" rim. [LMP1: 710mm diameter in 2014]

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For reference, the 2019 F1 tyres have a diameter of 670mm... Traditionally the tyre diameter was 660mm until 2016 -- in the Goodyear era the front tyres had a smaller diameter than the rears, coming in at 645mm.

Michelin 680mm 18" tyres are pictured here, but I believe these are GTE class tyres and not LMP tyres: https://cdn-1.motorsport.com/images/amp ... 18-mic.jpg

Of course I am disappointed F1 did not choose the sleeker 680mm 18" tyres. It seems consistency with LMP was the top priority, hence the tender specifying an 18" tyre diameter of between 700 and 720mm, with Pirelli deciding on 720mm.
Unc1eM0nty wrote:
15 Sep 2019, 23:14
These changes won't upset the established order
2008 leaders Ferrari, McLaren and BMW Sauber all screwed up badly on the 2009 rule changes... Arriving with vastly underdeveloped cars compared to Brawn and Red Bull.

None of 2008's big hitters cottoned onto the most basic of 2009 design strategies like an out wash front wing, raking the car, running a double deck diffuser and not using KERS.

Could it not happen again?

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Shrieker
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Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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So we need these ugly wheels to.. confrom to Le Mans standards ? Lol.
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Zynerji
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Joined: 27 Jan 2016, 16:14

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Change to pave the way for a new tyre war.

No one wants to waste money on the 13in bespoke F1 balloons, but they all want the test bed for development.

ENGINE TUNER
ENGINE TUNER
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Joined: 29 Nov 2016, 18:07

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Zynerji wrote:
18 Sep 2019, 02:42
Change to pave the way for a new tyre war.

No one wants to waste money on the 13in bespoke F1 balloons, but they all want the test bed for development.
Hopefully you are correct, but with pirelli holding the tender for years, hopefully the 18in tires will help them deliver a better product for F1.

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JordanMugen
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Joined: 17 Oct 2018, 13:36

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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Shrieker wrote:
18 Sep 2019, 02:36
So we need these ugly wheels to.. confrom to Le Mans standards ? Lol.
That's correct. The wheels on the F1 car don't look much different to the Le Mans car without bodywork, so I don't see an issue with it being "ugly".

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FW17
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Joined: 06 Jan 2010, 10:56

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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This Is How Turbofan Wheels Evolved From Racing To The Street
Written by Alexander Sobran

Do you remember any periods in your life wherein some nascent but compelling interest managed to imprint itself on every facet of it? Maybe speak like Yoda you did after seeing Star Wars, perhaps a Pokémon backpack to hold your Pokémon lunchbox and your Pokémon Trapper Keeper. Forget embarrassing fad worship, though, because the same dynamic is responsible for one of the most polarizing and unique automotive innovations both on- and off-track: turbofan wheels.

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What was the spark for this radical idea—to put bladed covers over wheels to aid in brake-cooling? It was the dawn of true aerodynamic understanding applied to the best sport there is: car racing. What still boggles many minds is just how long this took to happen, this great “catching up” of aero to engines. What I mean can be summed up by the fact that humans managed to supercharge inline-8s decades before they ever thought to put a spoiler on a car. Maybe they were all proto-Jeremy Clarksons, “Power!” being the only thing worth pursuing. Who knows. This is a topic for another day, so let’s get back on track, back to wings and vents and diffusers and louvers and slats, oh my.

Once engineers began to aid gravity in sticking cars to the ground, they went wild with ways wind could be manipulated to produce podium finishes. Group C cars like the infamous Le Mans-winning Porsche 962c and Mazda 787b were the posterchildren for the benefits of modern aerodynamics, but one must only glance at a Porsche 935 to see how we got there. Massive wings and cowcatcher front air-dams made the iconic 911 shape barely recognizable, but the most extreme piece of the 935’s aero package adorned not the body, but the wheels.

Dubbed, in totally consistent ’70s lingo, “turbofans,” these wheel attachments were the ultimate embodiment of form following function. Often painted up in garish but gorgeous contrasting colors, made of exotic magnesiums and kevlars, and sporting downright evil-looking knife-like air ducting, you knew that any car donning a set of ’fans meant business.

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For racing applications, the idea was pretty simple: the channels beneath the outer cover would exert a centrifugal force on the hot air that stagnated around the brakes after heavy use, pulling this hot air away from the brakes, keeping them cooler and more effective. So that’s why they were invented, but their enduring legacy has little to do with maintaining optimal rotor temperature: it’s pure style. The kind of aesthetic impact that race cars have in spades. This is why the early ’fans that were not summarily tossed in the trash after races are so sought after today by wheel enthusiasts; no one in 2016 is driving on the street with these attached to their wheels so they can brake later into turns, it’s all about evoking the look and subsequent badassery of race cars.

It’s the same reason the last decade has seen flocks of street-shavingly low German cars, a style that originated to mimic absurdly dumped touring cars like the E30 M3s and 190e Evos that used to spark, rub, and no doubt level out the Nordschleife.

Turbofans are arguably just plain old awesome as material objects, but the real value comes from using their origins and current popularity to understand the relationship between race engineering and street car customization. BBS, the undisputed king of the turbofan, even went so far as to offer non-racing customers bolt-on covers for their RSes (as seen in the red-white colorway in the included advertisement).

BMW, in a flash of brilliance, even equipped the first-generation E34 M5s with honest-to-goodness turbofan wheels from the factory! Polarizing back then for being reminiscent of stodgy whitewall tires, it was a bold move, but one that highlighted just how pervasive and important turbofans used to be.

I think we should look back on this trend with the most rose-tinted glasses we can find; through turbofans we can see the endless pursuit of gaining an edge on competition (they represent an idea taken to the edge) as well as the dynamic relationship between function and form, between physics and style. Anyone who thinks they look like hubcaps just doesn’t get it.

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Eventually, turbofan wheels were banned by most racing series, deemed “moveable aerodynamic devices.” Rumor has it that some wheels were designed to evacuate air from the entire bottom of the car, thereby increasing downforce. The two-piece wheels were heavier than spoked wheels. It also turns out that turbofans weren’t as efficient at drawing away the hot air inside, and the excess heat tended to transfer toward the tires.

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Youhavebeendunn
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Joined: 19 Jul 2014, 15:22

Re: 18-inch wheels to be introduced in 2021.

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I couldn't find a relevant thread for this, I'm surprised no one pointed out the weird endplates on the Renault. We're they like this last year ?ImageImage

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