Silly Season 2016/2017

[edu2703]

Completely agree. Actually I put Nasr, Palmer, Ericsson and Guttierez al in the same "box". They are all decent on their day, yet not consistent or talented enough for the upper midfield teams.

I found curious not find the name of Kevin Magnussen in this 'box'. In his two seasons in F1, he was able to make only two very good races. His other races were 'normal'. I don't know if in your opinion, this would be a proof Kevin Magnussen is not a consistent driver?

Everyone has your opinion. I put Nasr, Verstappen, Sainz Jr, Ocon, Werhlein, Vardoorne all in the same "box". All of them promising young drivers, the future of F1, the next generation. I will set a title for this box.

And Nasr, for a while he is the second best of this box, just behind Verstappen. He showed talent and ability that I saw in GP2 and did an excellent season in 2015. I recognize the bad year he's facing this year and also recognize it's not because of lack of talent.

I hope next year, he can return to drive a good car to show his talent. What can really happen with rumors of him going to Force India intensifying.

[ME4ME]

I put Nasr, Verstappen, Sainz Jr, Ocon, Werhlein, Vardoorne all in the same "box". All of them promising young drivers, the future of F1, the next generation. I will set a title for this box.

Nasr, unlike the others (a part from Verstappen) isn't a champion in either GP2, DTM or V8 3.5L. Just like Palmer, Nasr has spent several years in GP2 without really making a mark. You cannot compare his GP2 stint to Vandoorne's.

He is more on the level of Marcus Ericsson going by GP2. This has in my opinion been confirmed over 2015-16 in F1. Nasr hasn't been substantially better than Ericsson. He has blamed the chassi and other issues, which Sauber hasn't been able to verify. If i recall correctly Ericsson actually used Nasr's "broken" chassi without any issue.

In the races were neither driver was impaired by issues, he hasn't outperformed Ericsson as much as he should be. If he wants to show of his talent, he needs to put his teammate away in the same style Wehrlein did to Haryanto, or Bianchi did to Chilton. He cannot perform almost equal to Ericsson and expect to get a upper-midfield seat based on his performance. Maybe it's possible with the money he brings.

[Cold Fussion]

Everyone has your opinion. I put Nasr, Verstappen, Sainz Jr, Ocon, Werhlein, Vardoorne all in the same "box". All of them promising young drivers, the future of F1, the next generation. I will set a title for this box.

What on earth has Nasr achieved to warrant comparisons to any of these drivers?

[basti313]

Today at the DTM final Wehrlein confirmed negotiations with Force India.

[Sevach]

I put Nasr, Verstappen, Sainz Jr, Ocon, Werhlein, Vardoorne all in the same "box". All of them promising young drivers, the future of F1, the next generation. I will set a title for this box.

Nasr, unlike the others (a part from Verstappen) isn't a champion in either GP2, DTM or V8 3.5L. Just like Palmer, Nasr has spent several years in GP2 without really making a mark. You cannot compare his GP2 stint to Vandoorne's.

He is more on the level of Marcus Ericsson going by GP2. This has in my opinion been confirmed over 2015-16 in F1. Nasr hasn't been substantially better than Ericsson. He has blamed the chassi and other issues, which Sauber hasn't been able to verify. If i recall correctly Ericsson actually used Nasr's "broken" chassi without any issue.

In the races were neither driver was impaired by issues, he hasn't outperformed Ericsson as much as he should be. If he wants to show of his talent, he needs to put his teammate away in the same style Wehrlein did to Haryanto, or Bianchi did to Chilton. He cannot perform almost equal to Ericsson and expect to get a upper-midfield seat based on his performance. Maybe it's possible with the money he brings.

He said he would drive Nasr's car just to prove him wrong, but in the end he didn't nor he agreed to trade, Nasr got a new car.
Also Ericsson's sponsors essentially own Sauber now.


With that said Nasr doesn't belong in the Verstappen tier, not sure about Wehrlein, he talks a lot but i'm unconvinced.

[edu2703]

If i recall correctly Ericsson actually used Nasr's "broken" chassi without any issue.

Source?

In the races were neither driver was impaired by issues, he hasn't outperformed Ericsson as much as he should be. If he wants to show of his talent, he needs to put his teammate away in the same style Wehrlein did to Haryanto, or Bianchi did to Chilton. He cannot perform almost equal to Ericsson and expect to get a upper-midfield seat based on his performance.

So following your logic, Grosjean is a bad driver? He's just ahead of Gutierrez in points, but in 'races finished ahead', Gutierrez is ahead of him. 6 x 5.

And also: Sainz is a bad driver? In 2015 he was outperfomed by Max Verstappen and even by Felipe Nasr with a worse car than him in the championship.

He cannot perform almost equal to Ericsson and expect to get a upper-midfield seat based on his performance.

If your answer to the first question about Grosjean-Gutierrez is something like: 'But Grosjean has 28 points and Gutierrez 0, that's only thing what matters! Grosjean >>>>>> Gutierrez'

So for the same reason, you should say Nasr is much better than Ericsson. Last year Nasr scored 27 points against 9 of Ericsson. Nasr finished 8 races ahead of Ericsson and Ericsson finished 6 races in ahead of Nasr. This year, Ericsson finish 6 races ahead of Nasr. Nasr finished 4 races ahead of Ericsson

So here are the results:

2015 and 2016 Season
Nasr: 27 points
Ericsson: 9 points

Races finished ahead: Nasr 12 x 12 Ericsson

2016 Season
Grosjean: 28 points
Gutierrez: 0 points

Races finished ahead: Grosjean 5 x 6 Gutierrez.

'But last year's results are useless': I do not considered valid any analysis that takes into account only the results of the last races. If you want to make an impartial analysis, you should take into account all available data.

'But the 2016 Sauber car is not able to score points': Too bad for Ericsson. He should take more advantage of the opportunities we had last year to finish in the points as Nasr did. Now it's too late for him to demonstrate his talent. Furthermore, Nasr would also score points if he had a competitive car this year.

[edu2703]

Everyone has your opinion. I put Nasr, Verstappen, Sainz Jr, Ocon, Werhlein, Vardoorne all in the same "box". All of them promising young drivers, the future of F1, the next generation. I will set a title for this box.

What on earth has Nasr achieved to warrant comparisons to any of these drivers?

A lot of things he achieved. I have mentioned some in previous comments. Just search!

[edu2703]

Today at the DTM final Wehrlein confirmed negotiations with Force India.

And he needed to confirm?

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I don't understand why people are filling up pages here, purely with some random ways of either playing up or playing a driver. To me though, you never really know if a driver is good or bad, until they get to drive a car at the front of the pack. A lot of drivers were nobody until they got a chance to drive the race winning car and suddenly, they were stars.

Button, Alonso, Vettel and Ricciardo have all been part of that journey. No top team was eyeing Button in the 2000s, but a lucky year of 2009 gave him an opportunity showcase his championship winning skills. Alonso was even dropped after his first year, only to get a lucky break in a struggling Renault as they couldn't afford to hire a Schumacher or a Raikkonen or a Montoya. Vettel wasn't even the first choice for Red Bull in 2008 and the failed negotiations with Alonso and a lack of availability of a top driver forced Red Bull to induct Vettel in the senior team. Ricciardo was driving a HRT and a low performing Toro Rosso and once again, lack of a top driver lead them to inlcude Ricciardo into Senior team. Look what happened, all of them became top draw.

Even Webber, about whom hardly the F1 world knew, was a star from 2009 purely because of the sudden rise of Red Bull as the top team. Could anyone had imagined him winning races and fighting for a championship, before 2009? Perez could have been in that league, but for an unfortunate landing into McLaren at a completely wrong time. Now he is struggling to build the reputation back, that he had in 2012.

Most of the junior drivers that are being run down here, have performed at a very high level in the junior categories and it is their misfortune that they are now in cars that are just no hopes. It is grossly unfair for these drivers that they are being badly rundown, from arm chair experts here who have no tools/data to assess them, except for their half baked knowledge of F1 and some random statistics, which never tells the complete story.

Seriously guys, please stop this.

[Pany]

yesss. holy words

[FrukostScones]

I don't understand why people are filling up pages here, purely with some random ways of either playing up or playing a driver. To me though, you never really know if a driver is good or bad, until they get to drive a car at the front of the pack. A lot of drivers were nobody until they got a chance to drive the race winning car and suddenly, they were stars.

Button, Alonso, Vettel and Ricciardo have all been part of that journey. No top team was eyeing Button in the 2000s, but a lucky year of 2009 gave him an opportunity showcase his championship winning skills. Alonso was even dropped after his first year, only to get a lucky break in a struggling Renault as they couldn't afford to hire a Schumacher or a Raikkonen or a Montoya. Vettel wasn't even the first choice for Red Bull in 2008 and the failed negotiations with Alonso and a lack of availability of a top driver forced Red Bull to induct Vettel in the senior team. Ricciardo was driving a HRT and a low performing Toro Rosso and once again, lack of a top driver lead them to inlcude Ricciardo into Senior team. Look what happened, all of them became top draw.

Even Webber, about whom hardly the F1 world knew, was a star from 2009 purely because of the sudden rise of Red Bull as the top team. Could anyone had imagined him winning races and fighting for a championship, before 2009? Perez could have been in that league, but for an unfortunate landing into McLaren at a completely wrong time. Now he is struggling to build the reputation back, that he had in 2012.

Most of the junior drivers that are being run down here, have performed at a very high level in the junior categories and it is their misfortune that they are now in cars that are just no hopes. It is grossly unfair for these drivers that they are being badly rundown, from arm chair experts here who have no tools/data to assess them, except for their half baked knowledge of F1 and some random statistics, which never tells the complete story.

Seriously guys, please stop this.

sorry but you have no clue

[Vasconia]

The team changed the chassis. From the European GOP to the Italian Grand Prix (7 races), Nasr outperformed Ericsson in qualifying and race in almost all of them, and was still able to achieve very good results in at least 4 of these races.

In the last three races, Ericsson returned to ouperform Nasr in qualifying. In the Singapore GP, he was able to outperform Ericsson in the race. In the Malaysian GP, ​​he retire and in the Japan GP, he was outpoformed by Ericsson in the race.

So if you want to say Nasr is worse than Ericsson you must take into account these details. I always warn of the risk of evaluating a driver taking into account only the results of his last races.

The fact is that Ericsson has improved in his second season much more than Nasr has done(in comparison to 2015). So now, their peformance is quite similar which are bad news for Narr. Because if he is a pretty good driver he should perform much more than Ericson, a driver who almost no one rates as a "very good" one.

[ChrisDanger]

Back to the facts... Jordan King is running a Manor in FP1 this weekend. He's been in a development driver role, and previously took part in an Abu Dhabi test session for the team.

“It will be good to give Jordan his first FP1 session. He’s done a really great job in his development driver role and this opportunity was a planned part of his programme with us. We look forward to getting his feedback and this further opportunity to appraise his performance in the MRT05.”

It might be some indication that he's in the running for the seat for next year.

http://www.formula1.com/en/latest/headl ... ustin.html

[Manoah2u]

I'd imagine that some way that has to happen, if Wehrlein leaves Manor, or if Ocon leaves manor, somebody is going to have to fill that seat.

[ChrisDanger]

And further confirmation of Stroll to Williams, if any was needed.

"Lance will be in F1 next year," Lawrence Stroll is quoted by Journal de Montréal.

"You can write [that] in black and white.

Sauce.