2024 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team

[ScuderiaLeo]

This win sort of gets the "monkey off their back" that they had not won in 26 years. Obviously they will now have 9 targets on their back but easier to defend/believe once you've already done it

I suppose so, but the WDC pressure is even greater than the WCC and there will be lots on Norris from the start. We'll see, I hope there's a close fight between the two teams again next season for both titles, though of course I have a preference for who'll win

If Ferrari gives Leclerc a title contending car in 2025 would Sainz have been a threat?

This depends on what a "title contending car" is.

If the car had a strong front like in the start of 2022, Sainz would probably not be able to consistently perform at his peak. If the car was difficult to turn like in 2024, it would be closer as Sainz is better at dealing with this.

Still, Leclerc was fairly consistently ahead most of this season and even had some much better races near the end of the season when he very vocally disliked the car (Brazil, Qatar). So I believe even if Sainz was a threat, he wouldn't threaten the WDC if this makes sense. Similar to Norris and Piastri, Piastri is good enough to be a thorn in Norris' side when he makes mistakes, but not enough to be the reason he loses the title. Though Sainz is a better driver than Piastri.

The big difference between Sainz/Leclerc isn't pace anymore, they're usually only 1-2 tenths apart. It's that I don't think Sainz could pull off drives like Zandvoort, Monza, or Abu Dhabi. And these would be critical for the WDC.

[deadhead]

Here’s an interesting hypothetical - slightly off topic but tangential to the above so hopefully folks will indulge me: what would Sainz have achieved in a 2024 McLaren if he’d stayed the course there?

I think the only driver who could have won the WDC in the McLaren this season is Verstappen. Maybe Leclerc with some luck.

HAM
LEC
ALO


Would’ve won the WDC in that McLaren

[Emag]

Here’s an interesting hypothetical - slightly off topic but tangential to the above so hopefully folks will indulge me: what would Sainz have achieved in a 2024 McLaren if he’d stayed the course there?

I think the only driver who could have won the WDC in the McLaren this season is Verstappen. Maybe Leclerc with some luck.

HAM
LEC
ALO


Would’ve won the WDC in that McLaren

If you assume these drivers would have to deal with the same handicaps in the form of pit wall blunders, how many more races do you think they would have won with the same car over Norris?

Discounting Baku which was bad luck and bad management by McLaren to let their drivers vulnerable like that, realistically speaking, a perfect driver would have won Barcelona, Austria, Hungary and Brazil.

Assuming Max is P2 in Barcelona, Austria and Brazil (but maintains P5 in Hungary), then the point swing is as follows:

Barcelona -> Max - 7 : Perfect Driver + 7
Austria -> Max + 8 : Perfect Driver + 25
Brazil -> Max - 7 : Perfect Driver + 17
Hungary -> Max +-0 : Perfect Driver + 7

In total :

Max gets 6 less points, meaning he would have score 431 points from 437 he ended up scoring this year

A perfect driver would have gotten 56 more points over Norris, a total of 430 points.

You're still 1 point short.

[Andres125sx]

[Emag]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fq0moykxOww

Idk if it is that specific shade of dark red or some different painting technique, but that car is the most beautiful Ferrari since SF70H, which in my opinion was only beautiful because the car was a technical and aerodynamic marvel. The livery in itself had too much white.

[yooogurt]

[f1316]

I think the only driver who could have won the WDC in the McLaren this season is Verstappen. Maybe Leclerc with some luck.

HAM
LEC
ALO


Would’ve won the WDC in that McLaren

If you assume these drivers would have to deal with the same handicaps in the form of pit wall blunders, how many more races do you think they would have won with the same car over Norris?

Discounting Baku which was bad luck and bad management by McLaren to let their drivers vulnerable like that, realistically speaking, a perfect driver would have won Barcelona, Austria, Hungary and Brazil.

Assuming Max is P2 in Barcelona, Austria and Brazil (but maintains P5 in Hungary), then the point swing is as follows:

Barcelona -> Max - 7 : Perfect Driver + 7
Austria -> Max + 8 : Perfect Driver + 25
Brazil -> Max - 7 : Perfect Driver + 17
Hungary -> Max +-0 : Perfect Driver + 7

In total :

Max gets 6 less points, meaning he would have score 431 points from 437 he ended up scoring this year

A perfect driver would have gotten 56 more points over Norris, a total of 430 points.

You're still 1 point short.

That’s assuming those drivers didn’t also do a better job of maximising other things - eg the sprints, the races before Miami etc. It also assumes they don’t outperform Piastri in some of the races where he took points off Norris. There was more on the table than just the races Norris failed to win.

[Seanspeed]

If Ferrari gives Leclerc a title contending car in 2025 would Sainz have been a threat?

I do wonder this.

In some way, sure. Much like Rosberg was a threat to Hamilton in 2016 even if Hamilton was ultimately the better driver.

If Ferrari has a title winning car in 2025 and the two drivers are competitive, they will help each other ultimately. Be it Lewis or Carlos in the seat alongside Charles.

This is often forgotten in the whole hubbub about how two lead drivers take points from each other. Yea, they do, but if they're both ultra competitive, they will frequently be ahead of rival team drivers when a lesser driver might not be, which even if they're not leading the race, still helps a teammate who is ahead of them.

Not to mention that letting two drivers compete without explicit favoritism from day 1 encourages both the drivers and their respective garages to work as hard as they can.

[Xyz22]

If Ferrari gives Leclerc a title contending car in 2025 would Sainz have been a threat?

I do wonder this.

In that sense if Lewis underperforms then the dropping of Sainz would actually be good for Charles.

If Lewis performs at or equal to Carlos then less points for Leclerc until it is agreed to back Leclerc when it is apprent after a certain race that he is the lead driver. In this sense it will be about securing Lelcerc the WDC and securing the WCC.

If Lewis performs bettee than Carlos would have done, then there will be a problem of who is the "striker" for the WDC and they will pick points of each other. (assuming car has compeition with RB and Macca throughout)

In normal racing conditions Leclerc is faster by a significant amount on average and with a car capable of winning every race the gap would be even bigger in terms of points (because finishing P1 gives you + 7 points if the other finishes P2 which is the biggest gap).

So, no.

Of course if there is a situation like 2023 where Leclerc has lost around 70 points for reasons outside his control then yes Sainz is quick enough to exploit these scenarios, it's not a Perez/Bottas like situation.

[yooogurt]

[Waz]

Those are some interesting graphics. Hopefully putting to bed the nonsense about Charles being inconsistent or crash prone

[f1316]

Interesting that Sainz had more top 3 starts. Very impressive from Leclerc - probably his best season despite fewer poles.

[deadhead]

Interesting that Sainz had more top 3 starts. Very impressive from Leclerc - probably his best season despite fewer poles.

LEC underperformed massively in qualifying this season.

[ScuderiaLeo]

LEC underperformed massively in qualifying this season.

It's quite clear Leclerc intentionally sacrificed some qualifying pace for race pace, no?

Not saying he didn't underperform at certain points, at the end of the season he was clearly having difficulty, but I'd much rather he take the direction of starting one spot behind in the race and undercutting to gain positions than starting in the front and getting undercut by others.

He's very good at starts so it's not that bad to start in the second row for him. Sainz is not as good at starts so it's important he begins as far up as possible. Different strengths.

[f1isgood]

LEC underperformed massively in qualifying this season.

It's quite clear Leclerc intentionally sacrificed some qualifying pace for race pace, no?

Not saying he didn't underperform at certain points, at the end of the season he was clearly having difficulty, but I'd much rather he take the direction of starting one spot behind in the race and undercutting to gain positions than starting in the front and getting undercut by others.

He's very good at starts so it's not that bad to start in the second row for him. Sainz is not as good at starts so it's important he begins as far up as possible. Different strengths.

]
Leclerc just couldn't get the most out of this car over a lap and does have certain issues that other drivers on the grid are better are making up for -- for instance tire warmup, low grip conditions etc. He naturally has a couple of tenths on Carlos in long run pace which translates to better race day results. Also, Leclerc has always had more advantage over Carlos in the races than in qualifying although for some reason people rate his good qualifying as something out of the world. I see it as Leclerc being very good at qualifying, and better than very good at races in any case.