2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[1158]

power delivery to wheels is not smooth. the word wich is oposite to smooth. isnt that peaky?

I think what is being said is power delivery is not linear/predictable. Which does not necessarily equal powerful.

[GhostF1]

ok, not how I would descibe peaky. Means to me it is high not erratic, which is how i am reading your descriptions.

At least i know what's meant now.

My interpretation of "peaky" was it delivered all its power in one big wallop at the top end, it wasn't linear at all. It's power curve being rubbish which directly affects it driveability.. You want a broad "r" shaped power curve, not a backwards "L" shaped curve. As demonstrated by this terrible sketch I just did.


I believe the RA615H/616H were more in line with the "Peaky" graph based on a few quotes and comments over the last year or so (all without firm confirmation from Honda themselves of course, but it does add credence to it having poor driveability as noted by the drivers).

[godlameroso]

Won't be long now, I've said it before, I'll keep saying it, I feel they're a few reliability tweaks from showing something decent.

[makecry]

Won't be long now, I've said it before, I'll keep saying it, I feel they're a few reliability tweaks from showing something decent.

At this point, IMHO decent would be 20bhp from Mercedes and then we finally get to see how good the car is. I just wanna see Alonso passing Vettel on pace and the smirk on his face .That would be redemption for me atleast for last 2-3 years of sadness.

[DiogoBrand]

Wouldn't "bad driveability" be easily fixed by tweaking the ECU? I know that correcting hardware design issues with software changes isn't ideal, but would be way better than having ridiculous wheelspin out of every slow corner.

Anyway, those bursts of oversteer, from my perspective, aren't a clear indication of a bad car. Pretty much every car had it when I saw videos from the test.

I just hope they can sort out both the PU and the chassis. Would be better for McLaren and Honda to stay out of F1 than to have such pathetic performances for three years straight.

[ringo]

I dont include the chassis with the blame as some are doing; the engine is the root of the poor handling, and its not that the drivers can fix this with their right foot. For Monaco i would still blame the engine too. In fact the engine will show most of its weaknesses in Monaco since there is more unsteady running and more varying demands.
The engine will simply deliver power in an underwhelming, or slow or poorly metered way relative to a mercedes or ferrari.
I think you can use an extreme example of driving your road car with a missing engine, or poor fuelling. It will buck and kick and will definitely throw off how smoothly your drive the car, even if you are going slowly.

[FW17]

ok, not how I would descibe peaky. Means to me it is high not erratic, which is how i am reading your descriptions.

At least i know what's meant now.

My interpretation of "peaky" was it delivered all its power in one big wallop at the top end, it wasn't linear at all. It's power curve being rubbish which directly affects it driveability.. You want a broad "r" shaped power curve, not a backwards "L" shaped curve. As demonstrated by this terrible sketch I just did.
http://i66.tinypic.com/r6zdlh.jpg

I believe the RA615H/616H were more in line with the "Peaky" graph based on a few quotes and comments over the last year or so (all without firm confirmation from Honda themselves of course, but it does add credence to it having poor driveability as noted by the drivers).

Maybe Honda engine does not like being run detuned, by which I mean lower revs. The turbo speed probably goes below optimum into the lag phase that each time the boost kicks in there is a drivability issue. In probability this may not be the case in normal running as the turbo would just about be running within the required boost, and MGU-H patches in as and when required
As this is a unique case where the engine is running detuned three is no engine map which accounts for suboptimal running and the MGU-H and K are not kicking in as they are outside their range of operation to spool the turbo and smoothen the power delivery

[kasio]

Wouldn't "bad driveability" be easily fixed by tweaking the ECU? I know that correcting hardware design issues with software changes isn't ideal, but would be way better than having ridiculous wheelspin out of every slow corner.

Anyway, those bursts of oversteer, from my perspective, aren't a clear indication of a bad car. Pretty much every car had it when I saw videos from the test.

I just hope they can sort out both the PU and the chassis. Would be better for McLaren and Honda to stay out of F1 than to have such pathetic performances for three years straight.

yes but its not peaky! i alredy gave some examples. video from tests is most likely also not result of peaky power delivery but it may be. its not very clear and you cannot isolate other factors there!

[kasio]

I dont include the chassis with the blame as some are doing; the engine is the root of the poor handling, and its not that the drivers can fix this with their right foot. For Monaco i would still blame the engine too. In fact the engine will show most of its weaknesses in Monaco since there is more unsteady running and more varying demands.
The engine will simply deliver power in an underwhelming, or slow or poorly metered way relative to a mercedes or ferrari.
I think you can use an extreme example of driving your road car with a missing engine, or poor fuelling. It will buck and kick and will definitely throw off how smoothly your drive the car, even if you are going slowly.

Of course most of those can be valid and some even are. And if you have nothing its first thing into mind, but you can check seperately different aspects of your assumptions. its all on video! its not like you have to make your opinion from pictures and results only. there are places where you can isolate other aspects.
you dont have to imagine or compare to road cars.

[isullivan]

Who else has their expectations nice and low this time ?

[i70q7m7ghw]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39183145

People are abandoning the sinking ship before the season has started!

[Jef Patat]

People can leave non sinking ships as well.

[adrianjordan]

I dont include the chassis with the blame as some are doing; the engine is the root of the poor handling, and its not that the drivers can fix this with their right foot. For Monaco i would still blame the engine too. In fact the engine will show most of its weaknesses in Monaco since there is more unsteady running and more varying demands.
The engine will simply deliver power in an underwhelming, or slow or poorly metered way relative to a mercedes or ferrari.
I think you can use an extreme example of driving your road car with a missing engine, or poor fuelling. It will buck and kick and will definitely throw off how smoothly your drive the car, even if you are going slowly.

Of course most of those can be valid and some even are. And if you have nothing its first thing into mind, but you can check seperately different aspects of your assumptions. its all on video! its not like you have to make your opinion from pictures and results only. there are places where you can isolate other aspects.
you dont have to imagine or compare to road cars.

How do you isolate one part of the car from another, unless you have internal performance figures?? The car is a whole, it's performance is a result of all the parts and if 1 of those parts isn't up to scratch then the rest will be compromised.

So how can you separate those things out simply by watching videos?

And do you honestly think Alonso would keep his mouth shut about the chassis but not the PU?

[Dextercitox]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39183145

People are abandoning the sinking ship before the season has started!

I've never read an article in that website before, but it's look like Spanish rubbish "Marca". I've stopped reading where it says "The company used at least five engines in the course of four days at Spain's Circuit de Barcelona-Catalunya... ".

About the "sinking ships", nobody knows the real reasons why he's leaving the team, so you can think what you want.

[kasio]

How do you isolate one part of the car from another, unless you have internal performance figures?? The car is a whole, it's performance is a result of all the parts and if 1 of those parts isn't up to scratch then the rest will be compromised.

So how can you separate those things out simply by watching videos?

And do you honestly think Alonso would keep his mouth shut about the chassis but not the PU?

Didnt You notice Alonso bashing chassis more then once last season ? I never had told Honda is super truper best engine on grid!!! I am telling chassis has flaws!

You do not isolate car parts You isolate events. You do not accelerate when You break for example. And If You look at breaking event - You can easily distinguish which elements of care are involwed there. You can as well make Your own markers and use video time for comparison with other cars. And You can compare different cars during those events.