Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[DFX]

Have you been watching any races lately? Mclaren have more wing than most on all circuits and by design produces high downforce. Besides what good was the magic Q button for Mercedes in this track?

Its kinda telling in last few races that Mclaren have had similar delta to Redbull and Renault irrespective of circuit. So dont think there is much between the two engines.

So the 1s Alonso put on Sainz is by chassis only? And Renault works chassis is better or equal to Mclaren's?

[Soichiro]

0.12x100 ..+aero works better with more hp because the faster speed ....1.2sec its from engine ..0.4 from chassis ...chassis with modes for the lower power ...my opinion mclaren have little better car from red bull...

The more upgrades Honda brings, the further behind they are in HP figures. Interesting.
And 100 HP? Why not 200? McLaren must be at least 1s faster than any other chassis. Come on get real.

[ollandos]

0.12x100 ..+aero works better with more hp because the faster speed ....1.2sec its from engine ..0.4 from chassis ...chassis with modes for the lower power ...my opinion mclaren have little better car from red bull...

The more upgrades Honda brings, the further behind they are in HP figures. Interesting.
And 100 HP? Why not 200? McLaren must be at least 1s faster than any other chassis. Come on get real.

yes 100hp from top engines...why not ? what do you think?..at the first part of the season it was much bigger than that 100...and all teams make progress not only honda...you cannot losse 1 sec on staights ...like monza and spa ...even with other category chassis ...even sauber with the last loosing more more less ....

[ollandos]

i hope mclaren can build and use mcl32R(renault) chassis for last test of the year like honda come in ....it we help for next year i think ...and we can see this chassis dynamic ..with other engine ...not ideal but a better picture ...and we will see torro rosso next year with honda ...with no change for chassis reg.

[DFX]

As I said in the Mclaren thread, I think that the 100hp (which is a speculation) is an average of power deployment throughout a lap. When we speculate that the difference is 100hp it seems like a too big of a gap to be real, but if Honda PU cannot deploy ERS for some seconds during a lap plus the actual gap between ICE's power output, this numbers start to make a little more sense.

[HPD]

Is what Wazari has been telling us for a long time..

The McLaren Honda relationship has been doomed from the start. And McLaren must take its fair share of the blame for the circumstances around this catastrophe. It is no secret that Honda was rushed into its return to Formula 1 by the team with whom it enjoyed so much past success. Not only this, but the original concept and architecture which the Japanese firm wished to employ was shunned in favor of something far more restrictive, so adamant was McLaren over its "size zero" design concept. Honda persevered for two seasons before finally saying enough was enough. It had to revert to its original intentions if it was ever to make the progress it required to save face.

And so 2017 has been not year three of the project, but year one. The very real improvements, which have only recently started to become obvious, were the growing pains the company should have endured in 2015. Had it been granted the freedom to follow its own path it should, by now, have caught up.

There seems little doubt that Honda will be much improved in 2018. It is only a matter of time until they get things right. Next season will only be year two of this concept. There will still be issues. It will still lag behind in power and reliability. But it will get there. By 2019, it could be a force to be reckoned with.

http://www.racer.com/more/viewpoints/it ... n-year-one

[McMika98]

So the 1s Alonso put on Sainz is by chassis only? And Renault works chassis is better or equal to Mclaren's?

My observation is that Honda have been matching if not exceeding the renault engine. What do you think happened to all those Mercedes powered cars who repotedly have 80hp more? There are more variables than just outright power. Regardless Toro rosso us a bad reference, why not use Red bull which will the case next year. All shall then be revealed.

[DFX]

So the 1s Alonso put on Sainz is by chassis only? And Renault works chassis is better or equal to Mclaren's?

My observation is that Honda have been matching if not exceeding the renault engine. What do you think happened to all those Mercedes powered cars who repotedly have 80hp more? There are more variables than just outright power. Regardless Toro rosso us a bad reference, why not use Red bull which will the case next year. All shall then be revealed.

Sorry but there is no way that "Honda have been matching if not exceeding the renault engine". To be honest I don't think its even close right now. Spec 4 should be a huge step forward towards this goal, but I dont think we saw anything that can sustain that claim so far.

I used TR as reference because there are some claims that TR chassis is at least equal to Mclaren, which I completely disagree, and with the same PU as RB they were down 1s from Mclaren and 2s from RB which again shares the same PU.

[etusch]

As far as McLaren performing very well so far at Singapore - the team have been saying all year long that this track would suit them as it is a chassis track not an engine track - further evidence of the McLaren having a good chassis.

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 6956084224

Albert Fabrega says that in this circuit, 10 hp equals 0'12" and 10 kg equals 0'22"

However in Q3, we are 1.7 seconds behind the leader and 1.5 Red Bull (Renault)
Come on.. the chassis is good but very far from the best

0.12x100 ..+aero works better with more hp because the faster speed ....1.2sec its from engine ..0.4 from chassis ...chassis with modes for the lower power ...my opinion mclaren have little better car from red bull...

Mclaren chassis is not better than top 3 and this is obvious. Maybe they can beat mercs here because of long wheelbase of merc. Thats it. You are all on engine deficit but I think next year will be hard for you to find excuses.

[ollandos]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 6956084224

Albert Fabrega says that in this circuit, 10 hp equals 0'12" and 10 kg equals 0'22"

However in Q3, we are 1.7 seconds behind the leader and 1.5 Red Bull (Renault)
Come on.. the chassis is good but very far from the best

0.12x100 ..+aero works better with more hp because the faster speed ....1.2sec its from engine ..0.4 from chassis ...chassis with modes for the lower power ...my opinion mclaren have little better car from red bull...

Mclaren chassis is not better than top 3 and this is obvious. Maybe they can beat mercs here because of long wheelbase of merc. Thats it. You are all on engine deficit but I think next year will be hard for you to find excuses.

yea ...honda its not even on mercedes 2014 level ...next year getting closer and we see....

[makecry]

So the 1s Alonso put on Sainz is by chassis only? And Renault works chassis is better or equal to Mclaren's?

My observation is that Honda have been matching if not exceeding the renault engine. What do you think happened to all those Mercedes powered cars who repotedly have 80hp more? There are more variables than just outright power. Regardless Toro rosso us a bad reference, why not use Red bull which will the case next year. All shall then be revealed.

LOL NO. You can't be serious right? FIA concluded Renault,Ferrari and Mercedes PU were within 0.3s of each other at Barcelona. I guess you know more than FIA.

[HPD]

[...]

An interesting fact that was seen in the classification, and also Pedro de la Rosa said in movistar. It was the Mclaren Honda in the exit of some curves, it was launching white smoke. If .. oil, in small quantities.

Pedro made reference to some trick of oil burning, to improve the map of qualification. Albert said Honda has a map with 26 more Hp for qualifying.

[Fulcrum]

I noticed this as well, but I thought it was just the car kicking up dirt when offline because it seemed to manifest from only one side of the car at a time. Could the oil burn be confined to a single bank of the engine, and what would be the benefit thereof?

[HPD]

Helmut Marko: "Honda has, in contrast to Renault, a real power mode for the last qualifying section." (AMUS)

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 14548.html

[DrDejan]

Honda needs at least one more year to improve the PU to a competitive level, otherwise I don't understand why they've agreed on rescinding the contract with McLaren. There is no management that can justify a decision to move to a smaller team, with smaller budget for chassis and aero development and slower drivers, if they believe their PU in 2018 will be competitive. Horner comment that Honda will work in peace for a year at TR, without a need to perform at highest level, just confirms my suspicion.

I hope Honda had recognized the problems and have a plan in place to improve. Godspeed.