2023 - McLaren Formula 1 Team

[haza]

James Key wasnt just responsible for just 2023. He suceeded Pat Fry in 2021 and he produced nothing compared to Fry.

To be fair, the MCL34, overseen by Fry and Stella was the car that started the trend of poor performance in slow corners.

I thought it began with the mcl32/33 while alonso was there he always liked a understeery front end I remember back in 2015-2016 when Peter prod was first brought in Martin brundle commented saying how good the car was on turn in and corner entry, after the 2017 regs came in the car became lazy and under steer prone in low speed a trait that hasn’t really been addressed until recently

[coltmarshmallow]

The current package and the one before summer break is all the current teams work tbfh.

For those that keep asking about Key's relevance to the car's upturn in performance in the 2nd half of the season. PhillipM already confirmed back months ago the reply. I think that would make key's "last design" the baku upgrade, even then how much oversight he had by that point? Mclaren themselves have been pretty vocal its the new structure that has unlocked performance for them.

[Ground Effect]

The current package and the one before summer break is all the current teams work tbfh.

For those that keep asking about Key's relevance to the car's upturn in performance in the 2nd half of the season. PhillipM already confirmed back months ago the reply. I think that would make key's "last design" the baku upgrade, even then how much oversight he had by that point? Mclaren themselves have been pretty vocal its the new structure that has unlocked performance for them.

I don't know why it's been discussed, even in the media, Stella has said explicitly that the last contribution by the previous structure was the Baku floor update, he's given direct credit to Prod and his aero team for the progress that was made on multiple occasions.

[Mostlyeels]

https://www.racefans.net/2023/12/17/rac ... p-17-12-6/

This quote from Stella piqued my interest:

“Giving away a bit of technical information for everyone to understand the context, in Vegas the starting pressures were very, very high. I think some runners might have seen 30psi while running.

That seems very high! Given that's during the race, would the starting pressures then have been mid-20s?

[mwillems]

Mika talking about what drove his prediction this year.

A nice insight into what he saw in this team.

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mika-hakk ... prediction

[Darth-Piekus]

Regarding the upgrades that Mclaren did this year. Are these upgrades that Mclaren had in the making or did they simply made a full Red Bull copy? The reason Im asking is because there is this opinion that Mclaren made that big of a jump because they claimed to have fully copied Red Bull and also benefited from rule changes that damaged Aston Martin, Ferrari and Mercedes. So can someone with more knowledge on the matter give me an idea if thats true or not?

[dren]

It was my understanding that part of the way through development of the car they realized they went in the wrong direction and they changed direction so they started with a basic car. The upgrades were planned and not just a blatant copy of RB.

[Espresso]

Regarding the upgrades that Mclaren did this year. Are these upgrades that Mclaren had in the making or did they simply made a full Red Bull copy? The reason Im asking is because there is this opinion that Mclaren made that big of a jump because they claimed to have fully copied Red Bull and also benefited from rule changes that damaged Aston Martin, Ferrari and Mercedes. So can someone with more knowledge on the matter give me an idea if thats true or not?

James Key has the habit of reinventing the wheel himself. Refusing to copy designs.
He was wel known about this habit at Torro Rosso/Alpha Tauri. It really helped Torro Rosso did it?
MCL is bold enough to make decisions. Kudos for that. They are building a team. And those who don’t fit, no matter the quality, are out!
That is a very good way to grow!

[Zynerji]

Regarding the upgrades that Mclaren did this year. Are these upgrades that Mclaren had in the making or did they simply made a full Red Bull copy? The reason Im asking is because there is this opinion that Mclaren made that big of a jump because they claimed to have fully copied Red Bull and also benefited from rule changes that damaged Aston Martin, Ferrari and Mercedes. So can someone with more knowledge on the matter give me an idea if thats true or not?

James Key has the habit of reinventing the wheel himself. Refusing to copy designs.
He was wel known about this habit at Torro Rosso/Alpha Tauri. It really helped Torro Rosso did it?
MCL is bold enough to make decisions. Kudos for that. They are building a team. And those who don’t fit, no matter the quality, are out!
That is a very good way to grow!

I've fired toxic superstars before. The team always improves.

[mwillems]

Regarding the upgrades that Mclaren did this year. Are these upgrades that Mclaren had in the making or did they simply made a full Red Bull copy? The reason Im asking is because there is this opinion that Mclaren made that big of a jump because they claimed to have fully copied Red Bull and also benefited from rule changes that damaged Aston Martin, Ferrari and Mercedes. So can someone with more knowledge on the matter give me an idea if thats true or not?

You can't just copy in this formula, not exactly anyway. You can see the general philosophy that RB are doing and without doubt the team will have used this to analyse potential designs, because all teams will analyse each others ideas.

But the geometries are more sensitive now between the different areas of the car, particularly under the car, so simply copying doesn't cut it.

Aside from that, if it were that simple that you could just mimic the RB then others would have done it. IMO this clearly comes from an understanding of this formula and what makes this formula work. The remarks from the team suggest they know exactly how to keep the time coming.

[Darth-Piekus]

You can't just copy in this formula, not exactly anyway. You can see the general philosophy that RB are doing and without doubt the team will have used this to analyse potential designs, because all teams will analyse each others ideas.

But the geometries are more sensitive now between the different areas of the car, particularly under the car, so simply copying doesn't cut it.

Aside from that, if it were that simple that you could just mimic the RB then others would have done it. IMO this clearly comes from an understanding of this formula and what makes this formula work. The remarks from the team suggest they know exactly how to keep the time coming.

Funny that you mentioned it. I am from Greece and I see from time to time the comments of the F1 section of a forum and there is someone who insists that somehow Mclaren didnt had these ideas on paper from the winter and instead blatantly copied Red Bull and actually believes that the rule change in Monaco damaged AM and helped Mclaren do all that huge jump. He believes that Mclaren gained so much time due to that rule change which I find it complete BS. What do you think?

[mwillems]

You can't just copy in this formula, not exactly anyway. You can see the general philosophy that RB are doing and without doubt the team will have used this to analyse potential designs, because all teams will analyse each others ideas.

But the geometries are more sensitive now between the different areas of the car, particularly under the car, so simply copying doesn't cut it.

Aside from that, if it were that simple that you could just mimic the RB then others would have done it. IMO this clearly comes from an understanding of this formula and what makes this formula work. The remarks from the team suggest they know exactly how to keep the time coming.

Funny that you mentioned it. I am from Greece and I see from time to time the comments of the F1 section of a forum and there is someone who insists that somehow Mclaren didnt had these ideas on paper from the winter and instead blatantly copied Red Bull and actually believes that the rule change in Monaco damaged AM and helped Mclaren do all that huge jump. He believes that Mclaren gained so much time due to that rule change which I find it complete BS. What do you think?

I think it's nonsense. Not because I'm a Mclaren fan, but because evidence lends itself to the fact that the old Racing Point/Merc copy is not possible right now, at least not in the same way. Aside from the regulations that show you need to have developed your own parts and not replicated other cars parts directly, few others have found the time that Mclaren did. If one of the smaller teams could have done it then I'm sure they would have even if their elevation was only temporary.

This Formula appears to be a very delicate or fragile balance between the different areas of the car and work needs to be done to maintain a suitable and pacy balance, more so than I ever remember seeing in F1.

This is why I think that the team have nailed their understanding of the Formula and are able to methodically work through iterations of designs and find good amounts of time.

I don't doubt that the RB has been an influence on the Mclaren, no more than it has influenced other cars though. And I also am not concerned if others try to learn from the Mclaren if we get in front, it is how it works.

The individual on the other forum sounds like they are either mistaken or that they just want to downplay the teams successes. I would just ignore them.

[Zaamy]

https://mclaren.bloomreach.io/delivery/ ... d-2023.png

Possible reveal of the next car name on the Christmas card

[Darth-Piekus]

Thank you for your kind advice and information. Glad to be confirmed that I am not crazy. Unfortunately that site doesn't have an ignore button and I'm forced to see every message. I complained though to the forum moderators through email and hoping they can help tone him down.

[maygun]

You can't just copy in this formula, not exactly anyway. You can see the general philosophy that RB are doing and without doubt the team will have used this to analyse potential designs, because all teams will analyse each others ideas.

But the geometries are more sensitive now between the different areas of the car, particularly under the car, so simply copying doesn't cut it.

Aside from that, if it were that simple that you could just mimic the RB then others would have done it. IMO this clearly comes from an understanding of this formula and what makes this formula work. The remarks from the team suggest they know exactly how to keep the time coming.

Funny that you mentioned it. I am from Greece and I see from time to time the comments of the F1 section of a forum and there is someone who insists that somehow Mclaren didnt had these ideas on paper from the winter and instead blatantly copied Red Bull and actually believes that the rule change in Monaco damaged AM and helped Mclaren do all that huge jump. He believes that Mclaren gained so much time due to that rule change which I find it complete BS. What do you think?

A bit different comment than the previous answer, but IMO maybe Mclaren did not copy the RB but, it is the team that most inspired. Another perspective is that maybe the reason that Merc/Ferrari didn't follow the same convergence is due to the fact that their chassis didn't allow but Mclaren's did. We will see next season how Mclaren would start, if they truly found this path by themself by understanding the regulations, then they should be in front racing for the top. But if they fall back and become a mid-team again, I would say the copying/inspiring comments would make more sense.