Aston Martin wants hyper-car to be faster than F1 cars

[FW17]

If they use 13 inch wheels like in f1 won't they save in wheel weight and suspension?

[Just_a_fan]

No. A road car needs suspension to deal with roads that are generally much rougher than race circuits.

I remember walking around Silverstone with Justin Wilson. He mentioned a "big bump here" at one point around Maggots/Becketts. I had a good look and could see nothing other than a slight ripple. "Trust me, at 180mph with your arse on the floor it's a big bump!". A road car wouldn't have noticed it. I doubt even a supercar would have noticed it, it was that slight. That's the difference in requirements between F1 and road cars. And it's a difference that the designers will have to overcome. Just slapping on some deep sidewalls and rigid suspension won't cut it.

[VARIANT | one]

A lot of interesting back-and-forth on this one... a tall order to be sure to manufacture a street legal road car that could lap faster than an F1 car (which I'm going to take as F1 lap records, not the current slower cars)... but I think it could be done. Granted, something like the Caparo T1 (470 kg) is going to have to be the starting point, and from there, more extreme and most likely active aero and hydraulic and/or dual-mode suspension implemented so a track mode and a street mode can coexist. Nothing impossible. Still, a technical challenge to be sure.

The one talking point on here that keeps coming up that I'm going to address is the issue with tire loading. I agree that four street legal tires probably wont handle the loads. So what? Put six on there, or eight. This is the difference between how engineers think and motorsport fans think. Many of our race cars may very well be four wheeled because they CAN'T be anything else. Bugatti bitched about this issue when working on the Veyron (and again with the Chiron not being able to have a higher top speed), espousing the limits of tire technology. Put. On. More. Tires. The tractor trailer industry has had no issue with this concept for the better part of a century now.

[Just_a_fan]

More tyres won't help with top speed if the tyres can't handle the speed in the first place.

[VARIANT | one]

More tyres won't help with top speed if the tyres can't handle the speed in the first place.

It's not just the rotation of the tire against the tarmac that puts heat into the tire, it's also the loading. If you double the tire count, you halve the loading on each individual tire. This is the reason that many heavy, but potentially fast saloon cars have speed limiters even though the same tire would be fine on a lighter sports car at considerably higher terminal velocities.

[Just_a_fan]

Many of the heavy, fast saloons have limiters fitted because of an agreement to do so to keep the regulators happy. That's why German saloons are limited to 155mph. Other companies make those same cars, fitted with the same tyres, go much faster.

[VARIANT | one]

Many of the heavy, fast saloons have limiters fitted because of an agreement to do so to keep the regulators happy. That's why German saloons are limited to 155mph. Other companies make those same cars, fitted with the same tyres, go much faster.

Not what I read... but it was an old source that I likely couldn't cite.

Either way, so you denying that loading puts heat into a tire?

[motobaleno]

many of you faced the problem of corner speed but I have not read much about braking...
how do you think >5g braking capabilities can be achieved?

[Just_a_fan]

Many of the heavy, fast saloons have limiters fitted because of an agreement to do so to keep the regulators happy. That's why German saloons are limited to 155mph. Other companies make those same cars, fitted with the same tyres, go much faster.

Not what I read... but it was an old source that I likely couldn't cite.

Either way, so you denying that loading puts heat into a tire?

As you say, loading will put heat in tyres. It's not the only issue to consider in a high performance car.

[djos]

many of you faced the problem of corner speed but I have not read much about braking...
how do you think >5g braking capabilities can be achieved?

Carbon fibre brakes plus full active aero.

[VARIANT | one]

As you say, loading will put heat in tyres. It's not the only issue to consider in a high performance car.

I don't think anyone was saying that... though the consensus is that though the levels of aero could be achieved, streetable tires that could handle the cumulative loading of vehicle mass + aero loads would likely be the proverbial chink in the armor with respect to the concept of a road car that could outlap an F1 car. It might help if it's mentioned that tire failure in an unflawed tire is due to excessive heat buildup in the carcass, not structural failure under deformation due to loading. Tire grip (much like the function of brakes) is an exercise in thermal management due to mechanical forces, not the other way around.

I guess another way of looking at it is: Does the car HAVE to be quicker than an F1 car on street legal tires? If it's a trackday car and has a trackday mode, why not trackday tires? Sell it with a self jacking system and a wheel nut gun. I guess that's a "Does it count a sex if it's a prostitute?" kinda question.

[FoxHound]

There was controversy over the GT3 Porsche and GTR Nissan running non spec tyres to attain their 'ring lap times a few years back.

If it's a case of "run what you brung", there is no chance for the AM.
If they resort to having 2 specifications of tyres, road and track, they solve a couple of problems but create new ones.

Is a car truly standard if it needs racing tyres that are useless on the road to be able to meet the makers claims?
You could get any number of exotics with 7m30 second lap times at the ring to cream the 7 minute barrier with racing slicks.
Drive it home though.

Or will the car come equipped with a resident mechanic to set pressures, fit tyres and carry out checks before your "average" AM-RB 001 owner takes to the track?

Or will it be left to the owner...drives car, corners at 3/4/5g, blows tyre, calls lawyer...

Will respective race tracks also equip these tyres or will the owner be expected to lug these with him?
Having used track day tyres, I can tell you the logistics are a real pain in the arse.

Or maybe this is just so fantastical, that owners will do it in much the same way they hunt big 7 game... even to this day.
Pay millions for the experience.
It would be as unfair on the industry as it is on game. Unfortunate comparison, my apologies. Gives you the gist though.

Not often you can say you lapped quicker than Hamilton round Silverstone.
And this is what you pay for however contorted the mechanism of getting there.

Red Bulls finger prints already evident!

[DiogoBrand]

To me it's pretty clear that if this car weighs any more than 800Kg it will get nowhere near F1 territory.
Just look at some class C cars, for example, more downforce, more power, more top speed, less drag than any current F1, and still 20 seconds slower around Silverstone.
Even a Formula 1 with a full tank can't get near the same time zone as the Silverstone record.
And suppose they do achieve the same power and downforce to weight ratios as an F1 with more weight, then there are no tyres on this planet that will cope with the pressure.
So basically, weight is the absolute key to this idea.

[SR71]

There was controversy over the GT3 Porsche and GTR Nissan running non spec tyres to attain their 'ring lap times a few years back.

If it's a case of "run what you brung", there is no chance for the AM.
If they resort to having 2 specifications of tyres, road and track, they solve a couple of problems but create new ones.

Is a car truly standard if it needs racing tyres that are useless on the road to be able to meet the makers claims?
You could get any number of exotics with 7m30 second lap times at the ring to cream the 7 minute barrier with racing slicks.
Drive it home though.

Or will the car come equipped with a resident mechanic to set pressures, fit tyres and carry out checks before your "average" AM-RB 001 owner takes to the track?

Or will it be left to the owner...drives car, corners at 3/4/5g, blows tyre, calls lawyer...

Will respective race tracks also equip these tyres or will the owner be expected to lug these with him?
Having used track day tyres, I can tell you the logistics are a real pain in the arse.

Or maybe this is just so fantastical, that owners will do it in much the same way they hunt big 7 game... even to this day.
Pay millions for the experience.
It would be as unfair on the industry as it is on game. Unfortunate comparison, my apologies. Gives you the gist though.

Not often you can say you lapped quicker than Hamilton round Silverstone.
And this is what you pay for however contorted the mechanism of getting there.

Red Bulls finger prints already evident!

It's clear you don't understand how the track day specials from Ferrari, Mclaren, Aston Martin and select other companies work.

Would you like me to explain? Google is also pretty easy to use.

[Cold Fussion]

many of you faced the problem of corner speed but I have not read much about braking...
how do you think >5g braking capabilities can be achieved?

Braking is primarily a traction problem and tyres were cited as probably the biggest problem for this project on page 1.