The fastest F1 car of all time?

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samoth
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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xpensive wrote:The Porche 917 reached 400 km/h at Le Mans in 1971 with less than 600 Hp, but that was with a full body of course.
HI xpensive: I´m new in forum, but i looked over 2 years or so everytime in this class-act forum. The Porsche 917 was moore than one configuration. The top speed from about 400 km/h never reached the Porsche 917. 388 Km/h was the hightest speed of the Hunaudieres with the speed trap. I know it cause i was there. It was 1971 with the "Langheck" Porsche 917. The conventional Porsche 917 with "Kurzheck" drove about 365 km/h. They have not the original engine with 4,5 ltr. but they have two engines configurations about 5 ltr. and 630 HP. The original engine has 4,5 ltr. and 580 HP. Later with the spyder and turbo (917/30) they larged the engine about 5,4 ltr and with double turbo KKK they had about 1300 HP in practice and 1100 HP in race trim, Especially Mark Donnohue with Penske racing set the closed world record 1975 in Talladega with that monster of car. I wish everybody a good day and a clean race with exciting racing!

With best regards
Thomas
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Coefficient
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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xpensive wrote:369.9 km/h? That was a very specific number benjabulle, please be as specific with place and date?

And 930 hp for the 3.0 liter V10 in 2004? I doubt that very much actually.
It was Monza free practice i believe.
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strad
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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Reminds me of drag racing...It really doesn't matter which was fastest,,what matters is which was quickest.
It matters how quickly you can make a lap...not how fast you were in the speed traps. :wink:
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Lycoming
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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That's true pretty much everywhere. The only time top speed really matters is when you're trying to set records on the Bonneville salt flats.

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Mafia
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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that Mp4-20 was a pretty darn fast racer too....
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timbo
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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A brilliant example of thread necromancy! :D

motorloon1993
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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If the Mp4-20 was on slicks and the F2004 was on slicks, which would be fastest?

westech
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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The Mp4/4 that was the fastest f1 car of all time 15 out of 16 .

Raptor22
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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xpensive wrote:I doubt if anything would compete in a straight line with the turbo-cars of 1985-86, the Brabham BT54-BMW with 1300+ Hp in qualifying trim?

+1

TzeiTzei
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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xpensive wrote:369.9 km/h? That was a very specific number benjabulle, please be as specific with place and date?

And 930 hp for the 3.0 liter V10 in 2004? I doubt that very much actually.
edit. what is this thread...?

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Guisson
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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It's in Between The Ferrari F2004 and the Mclaren MP4-20 I'd say
The task is,not so much to see what no one has yet seenbut to think what nobody has yet thought, about that which everybody sees. Erwin Schrödinger

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Joie de vivre
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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I believe it's Ferrari F2004.

It holds most of the records.

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Cam
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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This is a situation where the right answer will never reveal itself. It's quite probable that the Fastest F1 car was never allowed to show itself as rule and regulation changes tried (and still trying) to slow the cars down. Add to that track changes - means a realistic comparison over a period of time in a static control situation is impossible. That said, using one or two tracks only and using the fastest lap of that track to measure, would be the best result to within a few +/-.

Pick a track with the least amount of changes that's been on the calendar the longest, for example Monaco (1955–2012) or Monza (1950–1979, 1981–2012) - I'm sure a math head here could add in an equation to compensate for track changes. List all the fastest laps (race or qualy) for each year, then add the (x) for track changes. This way, give or take, you'd have as close a result as possible.

In fact,I'd be interested to see that list.
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bhall
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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McCabism wrote:The Pomeroy Index

The Pomeroy Index is the primary means of measuring the relative speed of Formula 1 cars which not only raced in different years, but in different eras of the sport. Remarkably, it is capable of comparing the relative speeds of cars which never even raced on the same circuits. To achieve this, it uses a daisychaining technique, similar to the manner in which dendrochronology uses the overlap between tree rings from different eras to extend its dating technique all the way back from the present to prehistoric times (see The Greatest Show on Earth, Richard Dawkins, pp88-91). In both cases, it is the overlap principle which is vital. In the case of Formula 1, the daisychaining is achieved by identifying the circuits which are common to successive years of Grand Prix racing. Speed differences between successive years are averaged over these overlapping circuits, and the speed differences can then be daisychained all the way from the inception of Grand Prix racing in 1906 to the present day.

The index was invented by engineer and motoring journalist Laurence Pomeroy, and updated by Leonard (L.J.K.) Setright in 1966. (Another motoring journalist, Setright was hard to miss, "with his long, wispy beard, wide-brimmed hat, cape and black leather gloves, he looked like 'an Old Testament prophet suddenly arriving at a Hell's Angels meeting'." (On Roads, Joe Moran, p172)).

The index was resurrected and updated again more recently by Mark Hughes. The algorithm for calculating the index is as follows:

1) Identify the fastest car from each year by averaging the qualifying performance of all the cars over all the races.

2) For each pair of successive years, identify the overlapping circuits in the respective calendars. In other words, identify the circuits which were used in both years, in unaltered form.

3) Take the fastest car from the first year of Grand Prix racing, Ferenc Szisz's 1906 Renault, and assign it a Pomeroy Index of 100.

4) For year t+1, calculate the speed difference between the fastest car that year and the fastest car from year t, averaged over the overlapping circuits (and eliminating spurious cases where speed differentials were skewed by rain conditions). Express this speed difference as a percentage, and add it to the Pomeroy Index of the fastest car in year t to find the Pomeroy Index of the fastest car in year t+1. For example, if the fastest car in year t+1 is 2% faster than the fastest car from year t, and the fastest car in year t had a Pomeroy Index of 150, then the fastest car in year t+1 had a Pomeroy Index of 152.

5) Repeat step 4 until one reaches the current year.

An on-line version of the index from 1906 to 1966 exists for perusal, and Hughes's updated version in Autosport magazine obtained a value of 234.7 for Michael Schumacher's 2004 Ferrari. (Speeds have since fallen due to the imposition of smaller engines, rev-limits, a control-tyre formula, and a generally more restrictive set of technical regulations).

This doesn't mean, however, that the 2004 Ferrari was 2.347 times faster than the 1906 Renault. This would be to underestimate the speed difference between Herr Schumacher and Ur Szisz's respective steeds. Perhaps the crucial point to digest here is that average speeds in Formula 1 have historically increased, not in a linear fashion, and not even according to a power law; rather, average speeds in Formula 1 increase exponentially. Hence, the percentage speed increments tallied in the Pomeroy Index are akin to the yearly interest rates of a compound interest account. The 1935 Mercedes-Benz was 3% faster than the 1934 Auto Union, and the 1936 Auto Union was 5% faster than the 1935 Mercedes-Benz, but the 1936 Auto Union was more than 8% faster than the 1934 Auto Union because the 5% increase was 5% of a speed greater than the speed of the 1934 Auto Union.

Such an exponential increase in speed can be represented by the formula:

Q(t) = Q(0) (1 + r(t))t

where Q(t) is the speed in year t, Q(0) is the speed in year 0, t is the discrete year number, and r(t) is the interest rate in year t, expressed as a decimal. Thus, for example, if the year-on-year increase in speed were a constant 2%, then speeds would increase exponentially according to the formula:

Q(t) = Q(0) (1 + 0.02)t

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Blackout
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Re: The fastest F1 car of all time?

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Who got some pictures of the Honda that did that 400 km/h record ? especially its sidepods? couldnt find good ones.