McLaren MP4-28 Mercedes

[KingHamilton01]

Does anyone think that McLaren would gain more out of a different exhaust layout? Im thinking along the line's of what red bull, lotus and now torro rosso are using.

[beelsebob]

Does anyone think that McLaren would gain more out of a different exhaust layout? Im thinking along the line's of what red bull, lotus and now torro rosso are using.

Yes, because clearly it doesn't work on the Merc or Ferrari, and didn't work on last year's McLaren.

[KingHamilton01]

Does anyone think that McLaren would gain more out of a different exhaust layout? Im thinking along the line's of what red bull, lotus and now torro rosso are using.

Yes, because clearly it doesn't work on the Merc or Ferrari, and didn't work on last year's McLaren.

Doesn't mean the alternative wouldn't work better for them.

[beelsebob]

Does anyone think that McLaren would gain more out of a different exhaust layout? Im thinking along the line's of what red bull, lotus and now torro rosso are using.

Yes, because clearly it doesn't work on the Merc or Ferrari, and didn't work on last year's McLaren.

Doesn't mean the alternative wouldn't work better for them.

Okay, now what evidence do you have that it would work better? And what evidence do you have that it's actually on the car, and hence relevant to this thread?

[KingHamilton01]

Doesn't mean the alternative wouldn't work better for them.[/quote]
Okay, now what evidence do you have that it would work better? And what evidence do you have that it's actually on the car, and hence relevant to this thread?[/quote]

I didn't say I did have any evidence that it would work better did I! perhaps you need to read what I said again, im asking for people's opinion's, after all this is a forum for discussion is it not? if I was to back up my theory with evidence then you only have to look at the winning team's in Lotus and redbull who are both running this exhaust configuration. They currently sit 1st and 2nd in the constructor's and Vettel winning the championship and kimi second. Does this satisfy your need to back up my theory with evidence or would you like a technical explination aswell.

[turbof1]

I was quite suprised to see the torro rosso sport a rbr exhaust ramp. I thought only teams with a renault engine could get the benefit due unique characteristics to the engine. Apperently not so.

I don't think though it is as simple as switching exhaust concepts. Torro Rosso has a car designed to be flexible, a design philosophy typical to its current designer. The mclaren isn't that, being fully designed in very stringent interval. Just changing exhausts will make it a worse car. Rather, to make the ramp exhausts work they need to rethink the complete car, from front wing to diffuser.

[beelsebob]

Doesn't mean the alternative wouldn't work better for them.

Okay, now what evidence do you have that it would work better? And what evidence do you have that it's actually on the car, and hence relevant to this thread?

I didn't say I did have any evidence that it would work better did I! perhaps you need to read what I said again, im asking for people's opinion's, after all this is a forum for discussion is it not? if I was to back up my theory with evidence then you only have to look at the winning team's in Lotus and redbull who are both running this exhaust configuration. They currently sit 1st and 2nd in the constructor's and Vettel winning the championship and kimi second. Does this satisfy your need to back up my theory with evidence or would you like a technical explination aswell.

Do you think Caterham's rear wing would help them?
Do you think Mercedes's roll hoop would help them?
Do you think Lotus's nose code would help them?
Do you think Ferrari's suspension would help them?

All of these questions have exactly as much merit as "do you think RedBull's exhaust would help them" – that is none.

The fact is, none of these are on the car, and none of us can predict the effect that any of these would have, so it's entirely pointless discussing it here.

[KingHamilton01]

Oh so sorry mr beeslebob sir! I thought there would be many a knowledgeable person on here that might have some technical expertise to be able to give me there thought's and opinion on if they could adapt that, but since McLaren don't have this concept on there car I will choose only to talk about the McLaren mp4-28 in it's purest form.

[turbof1]

Beelsebob, as we are discussing about the mclaren car, I think it's a relevant and interesting discussion. Of course such one pointers will not solve their problems, but it is always fun to have a "what if" debate.

Sidepod ramps might extract more performance ultimately. But if they don't get their car's downforce running consistently, it will not matter which performance enhancing element they bring. All of it would get lost in stalling.

Of all cars on the field, this is one the most difficult to predict how it will evolve. The attempts until now might be for nothing when we get to canada. The original car might also suddenly start to work as intended. There's a huge question mark above this car.

What is increasingly more likely is that due more deflecting tyres is that both their rear and front are porpoising. It's difficult to fix that due they are stuck with their chassis and with that, their suspension. It's a structural problem. I am absolutely sure mclaren are praying to all kinds of gods in all languages and wind directions that the new tyres solve that.

[KingHamilton01]

Beelsebob, as we are discussing about the mclaren car, I think it's a relevant and interesting discussion. Of course such one pointers will not solve their problems, but it is always fun to have a "what if" debate.

Sidepod ramps might extract more performance ultimately. But if they don't get their car's downforce running consistently, it will not matter which performance enhancing element they bring. All of it would get lost in stalling.

Of all cars on the field, this is one the most difficult to predict how it will evolve. The attempts until now might be for nothing when we get to canada. The original car might also suddenly start to work as intended. There's a huge question mark above this car.

Thanks, appreciate you saying this.

[ringo]

The redbull design would help them. It would help all cars not using the design. It's simply a better solution.
F1 cars are quite modular.
There was a time on this forum, where if you mentioned the word "copy" people would lambaste you for it. Now we see shameless copying since 2010 and seen increased competitiveness. The cars work on the same formula.
If Mclaren copy the redbull exhuast they will see a benefit. They just have to copy it really well.

It's not secret that the teams with the Mclaren exhuast are nowhere. Ferrari are the only team, and their solution is beyond mclaren's.

not to say this is their problem, but i don't think it is ruled out of the development of the car. The front wing i'm not so sure about. I still feel it's a suspension and floor issue.

[turbof1]

The redbull design would help them. It would help all cars not using the design. It's simply a better solution.
F1 cars are quite modular.
There was a time on this forum, where if you mentioned the word "copy" people would lambaste you for it. Now we see shameless copying since 2010 and seen increased competitiveness. The cars work on the same formula.
If Mclaren copy the redbull exhuast they will see a benefit. They just have to copy it really well.

It's not secret that the teams with the Mclaren exhuast are nowhere. Ferrari are the only team, and their solution is beyond mclaren's.

not to say this is their problem, but i don't think it is ruled out of the development of the car. The front wing i'm not so sure about. I still feel it's a suspension and floor issue.

The one Ferrari tried but not ran at barcelona was actually one between the mclaren and red bull version. A S-sloping backending of the sidepod. I personally think that would be the better solution for mclaren for now. It doesn't require as much rethinking of the car.

[beelsebob]

The redbull design would help them. It would help all cars not using the design. It's simply a better solution.

<Citation needed>

[wesley123]

The redbull design would help them. It would help all cars not using the design. It's simply a better solution.

If it's such a better solution, how come only LRGP switched to it this year? If it is so great how come only Red Bull and LRGP are using it now? Even Williams tried it but chose to run handicapped by running the crappy coanda exhaust.

F1 cars are quite modular.

Indeed they are, that doesnt mean that you can just copy paste stuff though.

Now we see shameless copying since 2010 and seen increased competitiveness.

Teams copying each other have been around for ages, not just since 2010.

If Mclaren copy the redbull exhuast they will see a benefit. They just have to copy it really well.

So why didnt they run it in the first place? Why didnt any other team run it in the first place?

It's not secret that the teams with the Mclaren exhuast are nowhere. Ferrari are the only team, and their solution is beyond mclaren's.

You know, just a piece of bodywork doesnt make the whole car

And also, like said, if the solution is so much superior(which it isnt, both have it's advantages and disadvantages) why did only LRGP switch(and recently STR)? Was it decided mutually under the teams that they would let Red Bull/LRGP win the title? I dont think so.

Oh and also teams like Marussia and Sauber, they ran a ramped sidepod last year(without the bridge) yet they switched to the lesser McLaren/Ferrari style solution. Also Caterham tried the Red Bull style exhaust, yet they stuck with the McLaren/Ferrari style sollution. Pretty much the whole grid shows that you are wrong on that the RBR style solution is superior.

[McG]

The ramp exhaust is overrated.