2022 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[shady]

I dont think people here are appreciating the ride height of an F1 GE car - mm's make huge differences. Illustrated by the POUpright JUST to get the FW lower to the ground in a corner. Now imagine being Xcm higher than your closest rivals generating some lower overall DF than your simulations; you cant even confirm correlation yet. Additionally bouncing down the straight now you have to judge when to brake when the car is in relative terms of F1 bouncing like its at a dakkar rally and unsettled. Are there other problems with the car, I would assume so.. however this current issue of bouncing is overshadowing anything else. Regardless I imagine theres a significant amount of time to be clawed back once they can run low, flat and properly damped. The clock is ticking, however if different drivers start winning the chase wont be too crazy but if just LEC/VER its going to be hard to catch up without DNFs which you never rely on.

[NL_Fer]

I think they are increasing the suspension stiffness to dampen the purpoising energy also. But a stiff suspension can have a bad influence on traction out of corners, preventing Mercedes to put the power down early.

[Capharol]

1. if you mean more money used up for 2022 then you can say this for ferrari, not red bull. Even if they stopped development a bit earlier in 2021 than mercedes (no relevant evidence they did) this wouldn't have that big of an impact.

2. again, ferrari yes, red bull no. Red bull even had 2.5% less win tunnel time during most critical times for 2022 car development - july 2021 - dec 2021
https://storage.googleapis.com/the-race ... 4x576.jpeg

Because mercedes won constructors they now have that 2.5% deficit for jan 2022 - jun 2022.

3. same as above

which will mean if Mercedes is still 3. in constructor they will have 97,5% CFD time, whilst Ferrari only has 90% and RB will have 92,5%

[mclaren_mircea]

LC
@LappedCars
·
15h
| Helmut Marko confirms that around 50 engine engineers left Mercedes HPP for RBPT:

"Yes, something like this. I think that a loss of this size is not indifferent, it is quite normal that it can create some difficulties. And just before that Andy Cowell was gone." #F1

[Sevach]

LC
@LappedCars
·
15h
| Helmut Marko confirms that around 50 engine engineers left Mercedes HPP for RBPT:

"Yes, something like this. I think that a loss of this size is not indifferent, it is quite normal that it can create some difficulties. And just before that Andy Cowell was gone." #F1

That's sure to have created some confusion while they were developing this engine.

[torpor]

It was clarified several times: Just mechanics. No developers. No executives.

[rickybobbyf1]

LC
@LappedCars
·
15h
| Helmut Marko confirms that around 50 engine engineers left Mercedes HPP for RBPT:

"Yes, something like this. I think that a loss of this size is not indifferent, it is quite normal that it can create some difficulties. And just before that Andy Cowell was gone." #F1

That's sure to have created some confusion while they were developing this engine.

I sure am missing Cowell. I’m sure that they are doing a really good job, I just really enjoyed his occasional interviews and all the work put into the 2020 PU. Ferrari forcing them to increase performance for 2020 was something else!

[PlatinumZealot]

Nothing is wrong with the engine. When the car is sorted people will be saying how Mercedes is cheating with their rocket engine again.

[AR3-GP]

It was clarified several times: Just mechanics. No developers. No executives.

Ben Hodgkinson is not a mechanic. He was the head of mechanical engineering at HPP. He's off to RB.
https://www.imeche.org/news/news-articl ... owertrains

Steve Blewett was the Merc head of manufacturing at HPP. That's not "mechanic work". That's knowledge of every tooling, cutting, etching, coating (etc etc manufacturing process) in the production of the Merc PU, to RB.

Others who have new roles with RBPT:
Omid Mostaghimi, head of powertrains (electronics and ERS)

Pip Clode, head of mechanical design (ERS)

Anton Mayo, head of power unit design (ICE)

Steve Brodie, group leader ICE operations

These are some rather highly appointed "mechanics"

https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-bull ... personnel/

[torpor]

Thank you. I didn’t know that it’s so blatant, Above all celebrating 5th and 6th places is better than winning with the help of these mercenaries, isn’t it?

[Just_a_fan]

It was clarified several times: Just mechanics. No developers. No executives.

Ben Hodgkinson is not a mechanic. He was the head of mechanical engineering at HPP. He's off to RB.
https://www.imeche.org/news/news-articl ... owertrains

Steve Blewett was the Merc head of manufacturing at HPP. That's not "mechanic work". That's knowledge of every tooling, cutting, etching, coating (etc etc manufacturing process) in the production of the Merc PU, to RB.

Others who have new roles with RBPT:
Omid Mostaghimi, head of powertrains (electronics and ERS)

Pip Clode, head of mechanical design (ERS)

Anton Mayo, head of power unit design (ICE)

Steve Brodie, group leader ICE operations

These are some rather highly appointed "mechanics"

https://the-race.com/formula-1/red-bull ... personnel/

"Head of" is management. They're the people that get in the way of the people doing the work.

[Juzh]

Thank you. I didn’t know that it’s so blatant, Above all celebrating 5th and 6th places is better than winning with the help of these mercenaries, isn’t it?

Talk about absolutely irrational way of thinking, blanketly portraying employees who changed employer as "mercenaries". You're saying anyone who's ever switched teams in search of new challenges, new opportunities and yes, more money is just a mercenary? I guess Adrian Newey was also just a gun for hire when he hopped from mclaren to red bull, and a thousand other people in f1 circles who ever did so as well.
But yeah, If you'd rather be celebrate 5th and 6th than 1st then be my guest, preferably forever.

"Head of" is management. They're the people that get in the way of the people doing the work.

Former head of HPP Andy Cowell included? What a relief he's gone, so they were finally able to produce a PU they always wanted but were being held back by evil management /s
Anyway, fact is mercedes PU is at best equal with other engines in terms of power (being very generous here due to their previous record), but it has a big disadvantage on the ERS for whatever reason. It basically has no advantages to speak of, when it clearly did even last year to a noticeable extent. It is in most likelihood behind ferrari and honda at this time. So no matter how everyone's trying to spin it, by HPP standards they've dropped the ball in a very critical timeframe.

Must have been a pretty big shock to them when they were seeing these numbers:


Yeah, yeah, red bull went with low DF, but so did mercedes as best they could, unlike in bahrain. They chopped off half their upper rear wing flag and a lowered front wing profile, so the drag excuse is getting a bit thin. It's certainly not responsible for these kinds of deficits.

[RZS10]

There's an AMuS article quoting Merc that the wing was lower DF but still high drag, same as the beam wing(s) ... will be interesting to see what the top speeds will be once they bring the rumoured new RW.

[saviour stivala]

While Mercedes nay not be much behind FERRARI/Honda power wise it is now a fact that they are behind both. Before their power unit output was such that enabled them to run higher downforce without scarifying top speed. But now they cannot compensate for lack of it. That engines are now frozen/homologated till 2025 will not help any. On the chassis side Mercedes as constructors champions have the lowest wind tunnel allocation under F1’s aerodynamic ‘ballast’ regulations, which will hurt them more. It is hard and with much doubt trying to believe that they can turn things around this year and challenge the two front runners. There are some rumblings going around that their actual chassis is doomed beyond any hope of correcting its ills.

[SuperCNJ]

Nothing is wrong with the engine. When the car is sorted people will be saying how Mercedes is cheating with their rocket engine again.

Interesting you say that, I've been thinking the same but have no proof. I just get the sense that Merc has not turned their engine up or has not unleashed its full performance for some reason. I don't think it's just drag and porpoising, I think they have been running the engine slightly conservatively in the last two races because they knew they couldn't catch Ferrari/RB anyway but there's a comfortable gap behind them so they can afford to.