2021 Hungarian Grand Prix - Hungaroring, July 30 - Aug 01

[ringo]

Also Alonso is supremely experienced and a fabulous racer. However, we are lucky it was the Hungaroring or we wouldn't have to to witness anything like the long battle, and Hamilton would have been up the road and winning the race. You also have to be glad Raikkonen(?) happened to be right there at the start of the battle or again it looked like Hamilton would be straight through.

It was a superb few laps though. I wonder if Hamilton will look at what Alonso said about how he raced it and look at how he can make adjustments himself in the future? It was FASCINATING that Alonso said that afterwards. Great insight into it.

Alonso will say things to get under Lewis' skin. I think it's his sense of humour; to look serious about something but not really meaning it. He also said Lewis always complains and he defended for Max. I don't think he serioisly means these things but it's to annoy Lewis.

He defended well, but with the fresh tyres he was able to move in the corner and braking zones without losing control of his car. He was placing that in such a way it was impossible to overtake. It was not the same for Tsunoda, he could not place his car without messing up his pace, or possibly going off track.
Alonso and Lewis always race like this, we can look at the Mexican grandprix a few years ago when Alonso in Mclaren was defending hard against Lewis. Alonso puts in extra effort when he sees lewis coming up from behind. I think he still has 2007 in the back of his mind.
But nonetheless he was pressured into an error into turn 1. Maybe he was using his mirrors too much and made that error.
If it's one thing with Lewis he is not going to sit back in traffic he will find some novel lines to set up to take a go at an overtake. He was using some weird lines to minimize the dirty air and get close to Fernando.

[ringo]

No I did not hint or insinuate it as intentional. I never said Silverstone was either. BUT, the bottom line is that Max has lost a whole heap of points because of the mistakes of drivers who are his direct title rivals. Hope that clears it up.

It does. Look, these two moments are just facts. The intention behind them does not matter at all. Well, it does, if you are sure it was intentional a DSQ or ban should follow, but so far none of these events have been seen in that way by the organs that make that decision.

I think it would take someone very cynical and almost stupid in my opinion to say they are intentional acts. I rather trust someone and believe them for being good than saying they tried to kill someone when we don't know. I don't think anyone ever tries to intentionally harm someone on the grid because lives can be lost. Life > Sport.

The fact is though that for two races now, the penalty has not fit the crime and Max has lost a lot without making any mistake. OKAY, I can probably see why someone will say Lewis got a fit enough penalty and it's racing and it happens but I am sorry, the Bottas penalty is an absolute pathetic excuse for a penalty. He will qualify 2nd or 3rd and at worst finish 4th. It really isn't a penalty. Perez might need an engine change for this and have to take a 10 place penalty. It's honestly a complete joke. Almost feels like poor rules are manipulating the championship.

Bottas penality is fine. The cause for it was the conditions. If it were a dry track he would get the 10 place grid drop. But these things are to be expected on a wet and greasy track. Race control take 50% of the responsibility in my opinion.

[Jolle]

Also Alonso is supremely experienced and a fabulous racer. However, we are lucky it was the Hungaroring or we wouldn't have to to witness anything like the long battle, and Hamilton would have been up the road and winning the race. You also have to be glad Raikkonen(?) happened to be right there at the start of the battle or again it looked like Hamilton would be straight through.

It was a superb few laps though. I wonder if Hamilton will look at what Alonso said about how he raced it and look at how he can make adjustments himself in the future? It was FASCINATING that Alonso said that afterwards. Great insight into it.

Alonso will say things to get under Lewis' skin. I think it's his sense of humour; to look serious about something but not really meaning it. He also said Lewis always complains and he defended for Max. I don't think he serioisly means these things but it's to annoy Lewis.

He defended well, but with the fresh tyres he was able to move in the corner and braking zones without losing control of his car. He was placing that in such a way it was impossible to overtake. It was not the same for Tsunoda, he could not place his car without messing up his pace, or possibly going off track.
Alonso and Lewis always race like this, we can look at the Mexican grandprix a few years ago when Alonso in Mclaren was defending hard against Lewis. Alonso puts in extra effort when he sees lewis coming up from behind. I think he still has 2007 in the back of his mind.
But nonetheless he was pressured into an error into turn 1. Maybe he was using his mirrors too much and made that error.
If it's one thing with Lewis he is not going to sit back in traffic he will find some novel lines to set up to take a go at an overtake. He was using some weird lines to minimize the dirty air and get close to Fernando.

Hamilton’s quote after the race: “This was some great racing from alo. There was one moment where we touched and it felt on the limit but wouldn’t want it any other way”

I think that says enough, they both enjoyed it.

On a side note; Alonso must be gutted and happy at the same time. Happy to have a good GP and scored/assisted in a good result for his team, but for him the worst guy won. You never want your team mate in front let alone win. And then one step away from the podium…

[Sieper]

No I did not hint or insinuate it as intentional. I never said Silverstone was either. BUT, the bottom line is that Max has lost a whole heap of points because of the mistakes of drivers who are his direct title rivals. Hope that clears it up.

It does. Look, these two moments are just facts. The intention behind them does not matter at all. Well, it does, if you are sure it was intentional a DSQ or ban should follow, but so far none of these events have been seen in that way by the organs that make that decision.

I think it would take someone very cynical and almost stupid in my opinion to say they are intentional acts. I rather trust someone and believe them for being good than saying they tried to kill someone when we don't know. I don't think anyone ever tries to intentionally harm someone on the grid because lives can be lost. Life > Sport.

The fact is though that for two races now, the penalty has not fit the crime and Max has lost a lot without making any mistake. OKAY, I can probably see why someone will say Lewis got a fit enough penalty and it's racing and it happens but I am sorry, the Bottas penalty is an absolute pathetic excuse for a penalty. He will qualify 2nd or 3rd and at worst finish 4th. It really isn't a penalty. Perez might need an engine change for this and have to take a 10 place penalty. It's honestly a complete joke. Almost feels like poor rules are manipulating the championship.

If max and Perez both need a new engine they will be further down the grid then Bottas in Spa. In that case It will even be beneficial to have Bottas stop the redbulls advancing from further down the grid.

[Restomaniac]

Some thoughts on the race:
While some may have enjoyed the race and seeing a different winner, it also gave us a good insight into "reverse grid" and how problematic it might be. In the initial stage of the race, Hamilton was stuck in a DRS train of multiple cars following Mick Schumacher, Verstappen and Gasly. With all of them having DRS and Verstappen initially not getting past Mick, we had a train for multiple laps. It was only once people got passt Schumacher that the train slowly started to neutralize.

If you had a reverse-grid of cars in opposite performance order - the speed delta between cars would be far too small to enhance the "overtaking spectacle". We'd just end up with a long train of cars. It's always cool to see a quicker car fight through traffic, as Hamilton then was able to do with fresher tires, but the exception doesn't make the rule.

I would say that it depends how next years cars work. If they do exactly what they are supposed to then following closely isn’t an issue which fixes some of those problems.

[maxxer]

It does. Look, these two moments are just facts. The intention behind them does not matter at all. Well, it does, if you are sure it was intentional a DSQ or ban should follow, but so far none of these events have been seen in that way by the organs that make that decision.

I think it would take someone very cynical and almost stupid in my opinion to say they are intentional acts. I rather trust someone and believe them for being good than saying they tried to kill someone when we don't know. I don't think anyone ever tries to intentionally harm someone on the grid because lives can be lost. Life > Sport.

The fact is though that for two races now, the penalty has not fit the crime and Max has lost a lot without making any mistake. OKAY, I can probably see why someone will say Lewis got a fit enough penalty and it's racing and it happens but I am sorry, the Bottas penalty is an absolute pathetic excuse for a penalty. He will qualify 2nd or 3rd and at worst finish 4th. It really isn't a penalty. Perez might need an engine change for this and have to take a 10 place penalty. It's honestly a complete joke. Almost feels like poor rules are manipulating the championship.

Bottas penality is fine. The cause for it was the conditions. If it were a dry track he would get the 10 place grid drop. But these things are to be expected on a wet and greasy track. Race control take 50% of the responsibility in my opinion.

Imagine Bottas getting a race ban and Russel taking over the seat would have been much more fair

[Magicsenna_41]

It does. Look, these two moments are just facts. The intention behind them does not matter at all. Well, it does, if you are sure it was intentional a DSQ or ban should follow, but so far none of these events have been seen in that way by the organs that make that decision.

I think it would take someone very cynical and almost stupid in my opinion to say they are intentional acts. I rather trust someone and believe them for being good than saying they tried to kill someone when we don't know. I don't think anyone ever tries to intentionally harm someone on the grid because lives can be lost. Life > Sport.

The fact is though that for two races now, the penalty has not fit the crime and Max has lost a lot without making any mistake. OKAY, I can probably see why someone will say Lewis got a fit enough penalty and it's racing and it happens but I am sorry, the Bottas penalty is an absolute pathetic excuse for a penalty. He will qualify 2nd or 3rd and at worst finish 4th. It really isn't a penalty. Perez might need an engine change for this and have to take a 10 place penalty. It's honestly a complete joke. Almost feels like poor rules are manipulating the championship.

Bottas penality is fine. The cause for it was the conditions. If it were a dry track he would get the 10 place grid drop. But these things are to be expected on a wet and greasy track. Race control take 50% of the responsibility in my opinion.

Not to forget Bottas penalized himself with the DNF.
People expect some hard penalties like race ban? OK we can do this when Max will potentially hit Hamilton next time they met.
How do you feel about that?

[El Scorchio]

People seem to be very hysterical and knee jerk about things these days. Baying for rule changes or ultra harsh penalties for incidents which really don't warrant them. Race bans or 20 place grid drops for Stroll and Bottas? Have a word with yourselves! I have no idea how you'd have coped in the 80s or 90s.

[Mattchu]

Why should they both need new engines, and if Red Bull saw on the data that the radiator was leaking why not get Perez to pull over straight away so they can at least salvage something!

I`ve seen a few quotes [not here] such as "Perez was then also hit by Bottas and immediately retired." which doesn`t tally up with what I watched as there were still 2 Red Bulls going round at full[ish] speed 1 minute after the start.

Maybe some sensors broke or they thought we can fix it if there`s a red flag and that ended up being the wrong call.

Bottas locked up in the wet and caused a butterfly effect, you can sort of forgive that, show me a driver who hasn`t locked up in the wet or dry at the start of a Grand Prix. Stroll on the other hand is just a flat out idiot trying the move he did...the lad is normally pretty good when it`s damp, I just didn`t get it...

[i70q7m7ghw]

Verstappen's engine doesn't need replacing for Spa, it's been confirmed by Horner on the SKY broadcast. It was running hot after the contact because some radiator pipes were bent, but it only ran like that for 1 lap. They fixed those issues before the restart and the engine ran normally for the entire race.

[Mchamilton]

Why should they both need new engines, and if Red Bull saw on the data that the radiator was leaking why not get Perez to pull over straight away so they can at least salvage something!

I`ve seen a few quotes [not here] such as "Perez was then also hit by Bottas and immediately retired." which doesn`t tally up with what I watched as there were still 2 Red Bulls going round at full[ish] speed 1 minute after the start.

Maybe some sensors broke or they thought we can fix it if there`s a red flag and that ended up being the wrong call.

Bottas locked up in the wet and caused a butterfly effect, you can sort of forgive that, show me a driver who hasn`t locked up in the wet or dry at the start of a Grand Prix. Stroll on the other hand is just a flat out idiot trying the move he did...the lad is normally pretty good when it`s damp, I just didn`t get it...

Stroll was trying to avoid an accident by taking to the kerb/grass, guess he half hoped the kerb would help hook him round the corner when he realised he'd never make it. He was hitting somebody either way, exact same mistake as Bottas really.

[dans79]

Race bans or 20 place grid drops for Stroll and Bottas? Have a word with yourselves! I have no idea how you'd have coped in the 80s or 90s.

Honestly, I think a lot of people that are constantly complaining on social media weren't alive in the 80s or early to mid-90s.

[Phil]

No I did not hint or insinuate it as intentional. I never said Silverstone was either. BUT, the bottom line is that Max has lost a whole heap of points because of the mistakes of drivers who are his direct title rivals. Hope that clears it up.

It's just how luck falls some times. One could say Max was very unfortunate - and indeed he was. But funnily, so was Hamilton when his position evaporated and was dead last. One could argue it was a team-error that put him there, but given where the box of Mercedes is located in the pit lane, he was always going to lose a lot of positions. I totally get why Mercedes felt it was the sensible thing to keep him out at the restart, because who would have thought the whole field would go into the pits instead?

He got to 3rd on a very good strategy, stellar driving (with an intact car of course) on one of the most difficult tracks to pass. Had it been a normal racing day, Hamilton would have finished with the maximum points and extracted an even greater lead.

Without wanting to start a huge debate, drivers make a lot of their own luck. I don't think it's a coincident that Hamilton is perceived as a lucky driver - he just maximizes risk vs reward. There have been multiple occasions this (and in past seasons) where he has backed out of situations, where he by the rules hadn't had to, but did because he knew he'd be risking damage and loss of more points. On the other side, Max is arguably often in a situation where he is close to banging wheels with others or puts himself in a position where he is at the mercy of others, who for the most part usually pull out. To be frank; was surprised he walked away without a puncture after forcing himself passed Mick Schumacher (and Micks frontwing nicked Maxs rear).

Having said that, Max drove a stellar drive too in what must have been an incredibly difficult car to drive. I am also extremely impressed how calm he was on the radio throughout the race, despite the situation he had been subjected to.

In regards to Bottas - yes, he made a mistake and he is to blame for it, but it was an easy mistake to make, further enhanced by the loss of downforce by having had Norris cut in front of him. Once he stepped on the brakes a little too late, he was a passenger and unfortunately took out 3 other cars too.

In regards to penalty - no, I don't agree that the effect should be subject to the incident itself. Sometimes small mistakes with big consequences happen. It's just the way it is. If you start factoring in effect in the cause, penalties will become a lot more scrutinized. How would you measure that anyway?

[grubschumi13]

The championship is still close so still an exciting battle in the coming races.

The battle at the front was fascinating however. Clearly the difference between the Apline and AM was so close that they just matched laptimes. Sainz then arrived at one point and really gave a perspective into how F1 would be if all cars were that close. Poor Max, Mercedes are making the errors but he and RBR are paying for those errors. I do think the FIA need to consider if another team takes out other cars and causes damage to those cars, then that team should pay for the repairs.

This I think is an avenue they need to close before it turns into a tactic by teams to ruin the budget plans of another.

The FIA cannot be too harsh as they chose to do the standing start and not a rolling start. So the risks will come with that. Bottas cannot be blamed to much either. The conditions were just too risky and it was in the name of the show.

If anything this secures Bottas' seat even more. His heroics have secured the lead in both championships for Mercedes. And he also invested for the future with the PU issues redbull will have further down.
I predicted this Bottas and Max coming together but didn't know it would be like this. I was expecting to hear that Bottas should be banned from the sport for causing a 61G collision.

Anyhow it was a great race. Mercedes could have won, but P2 is actually quite good with Max all the way in 9th or wherever.
What was interesting for me was that it seemed like only Lewis figured out how to overtake at this track. The others seem to struggle with pulling off the moves.

Well to be fair with Max, Perez, Bottas all out, Ham did race against only midfield cars. Ham was stuck when on like for like tyre life.

After his 2nd stop a much faster car and fresher tyres to boot it was easy pickings. Had he stayed on a 1 stopper, I think Sainz had him covered.

[LaplacesDemon]

Shame we didn't get to see a Ver/Ham duel.
A lot has been said about how lucky Lewis is but I think on balance looking at his entire career fortune has not always been so kind.

I think it's rather more appropriate to lament how unlucky Max has been so far.

On the flip side, thank god for Alonso and Lewis in particular providing some entertainment. Without them we would have watched Seb following Ocon for 67 laps.

Tough race for Max fans, great times ahead for fans of the sport.