2026 Drama: Alleged engine loophole

[venkyhere]

Sandbags off and merc is 8 tenths ahead

From pure driving skill and aero lol

Definitely from aero. McLaren has the same engine and they were third today. Alpine and Williams look straight up slow. The chassis is the key. The engine advantage is nowhere near 8 tenths.

The FIA is in the pocket of Toto Wolff.
I don't believe that the chassis-advantage of Mercedes is 0.6-0.7s (realistic number, if both NOR and PIA had optimized their laps) over McLaren, on a power-critical track like Albert Park.
I have to go back to my favourite theory that Mercedes is sending all the right CAD files and other documents to all their customers and FIA, yet are still using a 'special soup' illegal version ICE for themselves. I wouldn't put 'integrity' over 'cheating' as the governing principle in ANY Formula1 team - that's the nature of the sport - win at ANY COST.

[Badger]

From pure driving skill and aero lol

Definitely from aero. McLaren has the same engine and they were third today. Alpine and Williams look straight up slow. The chassis is the key. The engine advantage is nowhere near 8 tenths.

The FIA is in the pocket of Toto Wolff.
I don't believe that the chassis-advantage of Mercedes is 0.6-0.7s (realistic number, if both NOR and PIA had optimized their laps) over McLaren, on a power-critical track like Albert Park.
I have to go back to my favourite theory that Mercedes is sending all the right CAD files and other documents to all their customers and FIA, yet are still using a 'special soup' illegal version ICE for themselves. I wouldn't put 'integrity' over 'cheating' as the governing principle in ANY Formula1 team - that's the nature of the sport - win at ANY COST.

That may well be but that doesn't mean he is a cartoon villain. The rules mandate that you must provide the same engine and modes to your customers, Mercedes has been honoring that commitment since that rule came in with zero issues. Any suggestion to the contrary is conspiratorial nonsense, it would immediately be snuffed out by the customers.

The truth is simpler. What some perceive as an engine advantage is really a great engine, a great chassis, and great software working in harmony. McLaren doesn't have as good of a chassis and their integration is not as good, hence they cannot get the same performance out of the engine.

[venkyhere]

Definitely from aero. McLaren has the same engine and they were third today. Alpine and Williams look straight up slow. The chassis is the key. The engine advantage is nowhere near 8 tenths.

The FIA is in the pocket of Toto Wolff.
I don't believe that the chassis-advantage of Mercedes is 0.6-0.7s (realistic number, if both NOR and PIA had optimized their laps) over McLaren, on a power-critical track like Albert Park.
I have to go back to my favourite theory that Mercedes is sending all the right CAD files and other documents to all their customers and FIA, yet are still using a 'special soup' illegal version ICE for themselves. I wouldn't put 'integrity' over 'cheating' as the governing principle in ANY Formula1 team - that's the nature of the sport - win at ANY COST.

That may well be but that doesn't mean he is a cartoon villain. The rules mandate that you must provide the same engine and modes to your customers, Mercedes has been honoring that commitment since that rule came in with zero issues. Any suggestion to the contrary is conspiratorial nonsense, it would immediately be snuffed out by the customers.

The truth is simpler. What some perceive as an engine advantage is really a great engine, a great chassis, and great software working in harmony. McLaren doesn't have as good of a chassis and their integration is not as good, hence they cannot get the same performance out of the engine.

I want to believe that's the case ; however, the past history of F1, where cheating, corruption, stealing documents etc has punctuated the sport, I won't let go of my pet thoery that easily. This is not olympics, it's an engineering club competition, where some university professor is called in to act as the adjudicator/referee for a fee. And it might well turn out (most likely even) that the referee isn't smart/knowledgeable enough to see through some 'tricks' the contestants have hidden. I am not complaining, I am just trying to convey the true nature of the sport.

[Badger]

The FIA is in the pocket of Toto Wolff.
I don't believe that the chassis-advantage of Mercedes is 0.6-0.7s (realistic number, if both NOR and PIA had optimized their laps) over McLaren, on a power-critical track like Albert Park.
I have to go back to my favourite theory that Mercedes is sending all the right CAD files and other documents to all their customers and FIA, yet are still using a 'special soup' illegal version ICE for themselves. I wouldn't put 'integrity' over 'cheating' as the governing principle in ANY Formula1 team - that's the nature of the sport - win at ANY COST.

That may well be but that doesn't mean he is a cartoon villain. The rules mandate that you must provide the same engine and modes to your customers, Mercedes has been honoring that commitment since that rule came in with zero issues. Any suggestion to the contrary is conspiratorial nonsense, it would immediately be snuffed out by the customers.

The truth is simpler. What some perceive as an engine advantage is really a great engine, a great chassis, and great software working in harmony. McLaren doesn't have as good of a chassis and their integration is not as good, hence they cannot get the same performance out of the engine.

I want to believe that's the case ; however, the past history of F1, where cheating, corruption, stealing documents etc has punctuated the sport, I won't let go of my pet thoery that easily. This is not olympics, it's an engineering club competition, where some university professor is called in to act as the adjudicator/referee for a fee. And it might well turn out (most likely even) that the referee isn't smart/knowledgeable enough to see through some 'tricks' the contestants have hidden. I am not complaining, I am just trying to convey the true nature of the sport.

Your pet theory is not well reasoned. You can't hide a power advantage from your customers, it would be instantly discovered in the data and it would turn into a massive scandal that would harm Merc more than any potential gain.

[venkyhere]

That may well be but that doesn't mean he is a cartoon villain. The rules mandate that you must provide the same engine and modes to your customers, Mercedes has been honoring that commitment since that rule came in with zero issues. Any suggestion to the contrary is conspiratorial nonsense, it would immediately be snuffed out by the customers.

The truth is simpler. What some perceive as an engine advantage is really a great engine, a great chassis, and great software working in harmony. McLaren doesn't have as good of a chassis and their integration is not as good, hence they cannot get the same performance out of the engine.

I want to believe that's the case ; however, the past history of F1, where cheating, corruption, stealing documents etc has punctuated the sport, I won't let go of my pet thoery that easily. This is not olympics, it's an engineering club competition, where some university professor is called in to act as the adjudicator/referee for a fee. And it might well turn out (most likely even) that the referee isn't smart/knowledgeable enough to see through some 'tricks' the contestants have hidden. I am not complaining, I am just trying to convey the true nature of the sport.

Your pet theory is not well reasoned. You can't hide a power advantage from your customers, it would be instantly discovered in the data and it would turn into a massive scandal that would harm Merc more than any potential gain.

Have the teams agreed to share the SoC data as part of telemetry that all can access ?

[Badger]

I want to believe that's the case ; however, the past history of F1, where cheating, corruption, stealing documents etc has punctuated the sport, I won't let go of my pet thoery that easily. This is not olympics, it's an engineering club competition, where some university professor is called in to act as the adjudicator/referee for a fee. And it might well turn out (most likely even) that the referee isn't smart/knowledgeable enough to see through some 'tricks' the contestants have hidden. I am not complaining, I am just trying to convey the true nature of the sport.

Your pet theory is not well reasoned. You can't hide a power advantage from your customers, it would be instantly discovered in the data and it would turn into a massive scandal that would harm Merc more than any potential gain.

Have the teams agreed to share the SoC data as part of telemetry that all can access ?

Don't know. But you don't need the SoC data, it would show up in acceleration curves which everyone has access to.

[venkyhere]

Your pet theory is not well reasoned. You can't hide a power advantage from your customers, it would be instantly discovered in the data and it would turn into a massive scandal that would harm Merc more than any potential gain.

Have the teams agreed to share the SoC data as part of telemetry that all can access ?

Don't know. But you don't need the SoC data, it would show up in acceleration curves which everyone has access to.

There is no restriction on recharge/deployment 'duration' there is restriction only on rate of recharge/deploy. What if the W17 is recharging by a small amount even in acceleration phases, to 'cover' for the illegal ICE advantage, and then deploy for longer in the straights (where acceleration rate is going to be blunted by the drag anyway) - it will seem like a super-slippery chassis, prompting others to think Merc's gain is from aero.

'acceleration curve' can be well controlled to hide. Hence I was asking for the 'mother lode' of exposing any ICE trick - the battery SoC.

[Juzh]

https://i.postimg.cc/4x8ZRgbP/battery.png
how does mercedes recharge so much more even compared to mclaren?

Where is this image from?

[ginobeppe]

f1 insights hub, you can see the state of the battery in the telemetry

[ginobeppe]

from the full graph you can see that mercedes is much more efficient at recharging battery, then rbpt, then mclaren somehow (probably due to software optimization) and last ferrari who is very energy starved. I don't know if i can link it here but Federico Albano in his analysis said that ferrari loses 9 tenths on straights alone and makes up a bit of time in corners

[Badger]

from the full graph you can see that mercedes is much more efficient at recharging battery, then rbpt, then mclaren somehow (probably due to software optimization) and last ferrari who is very energy starved. I don't know if i can link it here but Federico Albano in his analysis said that ferrari loses 9 tenths on straights alone and makes up a bit of time in corners

It's an estimate, and a pretty flawed model judging by the comparison between Antonelli and Russell.

[ginobeppe]

[ginobeppe]

telemetry from Albano

[ginobeppe]

yeah you are right, the model seems wrong, i didnt doublecheck for team mates

[hollus]

To those so convinced that there is cheating... what could convince you that there isn't? What would you need to see?