2025 Mercedes-AMG | Petronas F1 Team

[MB_Racer]

I sense a change will happen. This championship fight is far from over.

Championship is long gone (for everyone).

If Merc lose all the development they put into the Imola rear suspension then they are in a worse hole than Ferrari.

The RB seems to be undrivable by anyone except Max and apparently they are chopping and changing the floors they use. If the rear suspension fixes Ferrari's ride height issue they stand a chance to upset McL in one or two races but otherwise this will be McL P1 all the way to AD. The only hope is that Lando and Oscar start to actually come into conflict ala Nico and Lewis.

That's your pessimism speaking for you. I never doubted that Mclaren would dominate by I never suggested this championship was ever a lost cause.

I can understand If it looks lost like Redbull domination. That was different because they had every advantage in their period of dominance. Mclaren it's only 1, and Redbull and Mercedes are literally only "1" single upgrade away from understanding tyre cooling to go take it to Mclaren.

It's very far from over.

Fully agreed, there are still hope and it’s possible to put these rear tires in the correct window with a few changes

[Lasssept]

[Sevach]

Toto gambled and haggled with Hamilton, Russell wouldn't get better treatment than the guy who was with them for more than 10 years and won many WDC.

[Vanja #66]

Didn't Toto say they are 100% in alignment about extension?

[Space-heat]

I sense a change will happen. This championship fight is far from over.

Championship is long gone (for everyone).

If Merc lose all the development they put into the Imola rear suspension then they are in a worse hole than Ferrari.

The RB seems to be undrivable by anyone except Max and apparently they are chopping and changing the floors they use. If the rear suspension fixes Ferrari's ride height issue they stand a chance to upset McL in one or two races but otherwise this will be McL P1 all the way to AD. The only hope is that Lando and Oscar start to actually come into conflict ala Nico and Lewis.

That's your pessimism speaking for you. I never doubted that Mclaren would dominate by I never suggested this championship was ever a lost cause.

I can understand If it looks lost like Redbull domination. That was different because they had every advantage in their period of dominance. Mclaren it's only 1, and Redbull and Mercedes are literally only "1" single upgrade away from understanding tyre cooling to go take it to Mclaren.

It's very far from over.

I do not where is start here.

From a quick google two of the largest ever deficits were Max 22' (46 points) and Vettle 12' (39 points). George is currently 75 points behind Oscar.

Unless you mean, Merc closing the gap to McL and competing for victories. Once McL are comfortable they will switch to 26' (if they haven't already).

RB and Merc are not 1 upgrade from McL. No upgrade is going to give 2-3 tenths/lap this late in the reg. Merc developed a rear suspension update and seem to have dumped it. That is a lot of in season development resources that are not going into the car. Look at Ferrari, they haven't brought anything (floor Bahrain) since they realized they need to develop their rear suspension. The rear tyre cooling is part of the picture but it isn't the silver bullet, similar to the flexi wings they all add but they aren't the sole reason.

[Matt2725]

Championship is long gone (for everyone).

If Merc lose all the development they put into the Imola rear suspension then they are in a worse hole than Ferrari.

The RB seems to be undrivable by anyone except Max and apparently they are chopping and changing the floors they use. If the rear suspension fixes Ferrari's ride height issue they stand a chance to upset McL in one or two races but otherwise this will be McL P1 all the way to AD. The only hope is that Lando and Oscar start to actually come into conflict ala Nico and Lewis.

That's your pessimism speaking for you. I never doubted that Mclaren would dominate by I never suggested this championship was ever a lost cause.

I can understand If it looks lost like Redbull domination. That was different because they had every advantage in their period of dominance. Mclaren it's only 1, and Redbull and Mercedes are literally only "1" single upgrade away from understanding tyre cooling to go take it to Mclaren.

It's very far from over.

I do not where is start here.

From a quick google two of the largest ever deficits were Max 22' (46 points) and Vettle 12' (39 points). George is currently 75 points behind Oscar.

Unless you mean, Merc closing the gap to McL and competing for victories. Once McL are comfortable they will switch to 26' (if they haven't already).

RB and Merc are not 1 upgrade from McL. No upgrade is going to give 2-3 tenths/lap this late in the reg. Merc developed a rear suspension update and seem to have dumped it. That is a lot of in season development resources that are not going into the car. Look at Ferrari, they haven't brought anything (floor Bahrain) since they realized they need to develop their rear suspension. The rear tyre cooling is part of the picture but it isn't the silver bullet, similar to the flexi wings they all add but they aren't the sole reason.

I guess the theory here is McLaren have two drivers competing for wins, who will take points off eachother and potentially allow a third driver such as a Max or George to close the gap.
I think it's extremely unlikely but doable still.

[Emag]

That's your pessimism speaking for you. I never doubted that Mclaren would dominate by I never suggested this championship was ever a lost cause.

I can understand If it looks lost like Redbull domination. That was different because they had every advantage in their period of dominance. Mclaren it's only 1, and Redbull and Mercedes are literally only "1" single upgrade away from understanding tyre cooling to go take it to Mclaren.

It's very far from over.

I do not where is start here.

From a quick google two of the largest ever deficits were Max 22' (46 points) and Vettle 12' (39 points). George is currently 75 points behind Oscar.

Unless you mean, Merc closing the gap to McL and competing for victories. Once McL are comfortable they will switch to 26' (if they haven't already).

RB and Merc are not 1 upgrade from McL. No upgrade is going to give 2-3 tenths/lap this late in the reg. Merc developed a rear suspension update and seem to have dumped it. That is a lot of in season development resources that are not going into the car. Look at Ferrari, they haven't brought anything (floor Bahrain) since they realized they need to develop their rear suspension. The rear tyre cooling is part of the picture but it isn't the silver bullet, similar to the flexi wings they all add but they aren't the sole reason.

I guess the theory here is McLaren have two drivers competing for wins, who will take points off eachother and potentially allow a third driver such as a Max or George to close the gap.
I think it's extremely unlikely but doable still.

A flawed theory. Nobody can do anything if they don't have the car to fight for wins. If McLaren drivers finish 1-2 (as they should given their current car), the gap to P3 in the standings will continue to grow more and more. Especially if the following 3 teams all compete together for that 3rd place and there isn't a consistent scorer.

The only way to win the championship, is for RedBull, Mercedes and Ferrari to outdevelop McLaren to the point where they can't win races anymore. Basically, you need McLaren to be consistently off the podium the second half of the season to turn the advantage around.

How realistic or not that is, depends on what each individual's opinion is related to McLaren's advantage

[SB15]

Either way this championship is very far from conclusion. I know yes, Redbull and Mercedes are quite down in the championship. You don't have to believe or accept my opinion, but I know that this year isn't a lost cause no matter what the current result looks like. You can call me delusional, I don't care. Because I'll never give up believing. Both teams are 1 upgrade away.

[venkyhere]

Either way this championship is very far from conclusion. I know yes, Redbull and Mercedes are quite down in the championship. You don't have to believe or accept my opinion, but I know that this year isn't a lost cause no matter what the current result looks like. You can call me delusional, I don't care. Because I'll never give up believing. Both teams are 1 upgrade away.

My opinion (on the bold text) :
The McLaren has so many trump cards in it's pocket - mechanical, cooling, aero, traction, braking, reliability. It's as close to a perfect car as possible in this regulation set. It will definitely take more than one upgrade (even if a large one) to match up to the MCL39.
Why ?
Well, they are always running somewhere in the 1-2-3 positions in any race, and there is a lot of 'pace managing' going on, as typically associated with lead cars in a race. So they haven't run a 'full beans' regular stint (like Verstappen did in his second and third stints in Barcelona) that isn't a post late SC sprint to the line. McLaren haven't fully unzipped their fly yet.

[SB15]

Either way this championship is very far from conclusion. I know yes, Redbull and Mercedes are quite down in the championship. You don't have to believe or accept my opinion, but I know that this year isn't a lost cause no matter what the current result looks like. You can call me delusional, I don't care. Because I'll never give up believing. Both teams are 1 upgrade away.

My opinion (on the bold text) :
The McLaren has so many trump cards in it's pocket - mechanical, cooling, aero, traction, braking, reliability. It's as close to a perfect car as possible in this regulation set. It will definitely take more than one upgrade (even if a large one) to match up to the MCL39.
Why ?
Well, they are always running somewhere in the 1-2-3 positions in any race, and there is a lot of 'pace managing' going on, as typically associated with lead cars in a race. So they haven't run a 'full beans' regular stint (like Verstappen did in his second and third stints in Barcelona) that isn't a post late SC sprint to the line. McLaren haven't fully unzipped their fly yet.

We'll see if that's the case. They (Mclaren) were always fully honest about their pace in the long runs vs the competition and how it's closer on Sunday & Saturday.

Mclaren doesn't have an advantage as much as you think because that would've been the case in Suzuka, Jeddah and Imola and also with the 3 stop Verstappen was on in Spain. They don't drive into the distance like the Redbull in 2023.

What's with all the pessimism with you guys? I never seen so many fans soo defeated before because a team has a marginal advantage?

Honestly, if this is how you guys react now, you're going to hate it in 2026 when 1 team fully dominates from top to bottom.

[CjC]

Either way this championship is very far from conclusion. I know yes, Redbull and Mercedes are quite down in the championship. You don't have to believe or accept my opinion, but I know that this year isn't a lost cause no matter what the current result looks like. You can call me delusional, I don't care. Because I'll never give up believing. Both teams are 1 upgrade away.

My opinion (on the bold text) :
The McLaren has so many trump cards in it's pocket - mechanical, cooling, aero, traction, braking, reliability. It's as close to a perfect car as possible in this regulation set. It will definitely take more than one upgrade (even if a large one) to match up to the MCL39.
Why ?
Well, they are always running somewhere in the 1-2-3 positions in any race, and there is a lot of 'pace managing' going on, as typically associated with lead cars in a race. So they haven't run a 'full beans' regular stint (like Verstappen did in his second and third stints in Barcelona) that isn't a post late SC sprint to the line. McLaren haven't fully unzipped their fly yet.

Agree with the ‘pace managing’ however did we see a glimpse of their potential the last 5/6 laps in Spain when after the safety car? Leclerc finished over 10 seconds back

[venkyhere]

Either way this championship is very far from conclusion. I know yes, Redbull and Mercedes are quite down in the championship. You don't have to believe or accept my opinion, but I know that this year isn't a lost cause no matter what the current result looks like. You can call me delusional, I don't care. Because I'll never give up believing. Both teams are 1 upgrade away.

My opinion (on the bold text) :
The McLaren has so many trump cards in it's pocket - mechanical, cooling, aero, traction, braking, reliability. It's as close to a perfect car as possible in this regulation set. It will definitely take more than one upgrade (even if a large one) to match up to the MCL39.
Why ?
Well, they are always running somewhere in the 1-2-3 positions in any race, and there is a lot of 'pace managing' going on, as typically associated with lead cars in a race. So they haven't run a 'full beans' regular stint (like Verstappen did in his second and third stints in Barcelona) that isn't a post late SC sprint to the line. McLaren haven't fully unzipped their fly yet.

Agree with the ‘pace managing’ however did we see a glimpse of their potential the last 5/6 laps in Spain when after the safety car? Leclerc finished over 10 seconds back

hence the "....that isn't a post late SC sprint to the line" caveat in my post.

[Hammerfist]

Either way this championship is very far from conclusion. I know yes, Redbull and Mercedes are quite down in the championship. You don't have to believe or accept my opinion, but I know that this year isn't a lost cause no matter what the current result looks like. You can call me delusional, I don't care. Because I'll never give up believing. Both teams are 1 upgrade away.

My opinion (on the bold text) :
The McLaren has so many trump cards in it's pocket - mechanical, cooling, aero, traction, braking, reliability. It's as close to a perfect car as possible in this regulation set. It will definitely take more than one upgrade (even if a large one) to match up to the MCL39.
Why ?
Well, they are always running somewhere in the 1-2-3 positions in any race, and there is a lot of 'pace managing' going on, as typically associated with lead cars in a race. So they haven't run a 'full beans' regular stint (like Verstappen did in his second and third stints in Barcelona) that isn't a post late SC sprint to the line. McLaren haven't fully unzipped their fly yet.

I mean if redbull ran the same strategy as mclaren they would have finished miles behind mclaren in Spain. Mclaren are very far ahead. At leadt 0.5sec in race pace imo. But the advantage doesnt exactly translate to all tracks. They were beatable in Imola for example.

[ringo]

Didn't Toto say they are 100% in alignment about extension?

Maybe not aligned on the moolah $$.
George probably wants Hamilton level money, thinking that beating Lewis in 24 justifies it. The thing is he, along with the other super fast hopefuls, don't have the silverware or titles to command the big bucks.
Max and Lewis weren't getting much money before their first titles. The money in Max's case was based on performance, like wins prior to his first title.
If George doesn't get a win this year, I doubt he can argue for a substantial increase in salary.

[SB15]

Didn't Toto say they are 100% in alignment about extension?

Maybe not aligned on the moolah $$.
George probably wants Hamilton level money, thinking that beating Lewis in 24 justifies it. The thing is he, along with the other super fast hopefuls, don't have the silverware or titles to command the big bucks.
Max and Lewis weren't getting much money before their first titles. The money in Max's case was based on performance, like wins prior to his first title.
If George doesn't get a win this year, I doubt he can argue for a substantial increase in salary.

Or they're just being patient with it.