Is the V6 formula a disaster for F1?

[Pingguest]

As none of us is employed by the manufacturers, it is very difficult for us to determine whether Formula One is or could be relevant for road cars. However, with the assumption that Formula One is purely for marketing, the new regulations are a step into the right direction.

[Samraj_official]

McLaren and Ferrari have always linked their two new products with F1 , Ferrari said that their KERS made by the same place where the produced their GP cars system (09-13). McLaren too said that the designed their aero clues based on F1 and INFINITI said the carbon fibre bits of the infiniti FX50 by Vettel edition were made on the cars ovens in the milton keyes factory.
F1 is no more an high speed laboratory but an place for pure marketing and always live in nostalgia and their poor struggle everyday!!! pls learn from WEC.........The tighter the rules get the more cost you are spending to gain that fraction. as Mosley said relax the rules where this can turn innovation without burning tonnes of bills !!!!!!!!!!!

[strad]

Those engines weren't engines.. They were bombs with a bunch of pistons beneath.

Many times because of the materials and workmanship which have both improved massively.

[r_b_l]

It makes much more sense now. The actual technology in the F1 cars is a far cry from road cars, but if they can somehow relate the 2...the marketing is more effective. So F1 for manufacturers is not truly for R&D, but more to move a product.

That makes sense as to why rbr, sauber, williams and some of the others dont favor hybrids so much.

Yeah I also wouldn't be happy as a f1 customer team today with only 4 options, 2 of them are not an option if you want to be competitive (Honda will catch up, Renault uncertain?) 10 years ago there were 7 engine manufacturers.

A F1 customer team would definitely prefer more options. i.e more engine manufactures in competition to gain a contract, the cost for the team should be lower, supply vs demand?? Compared to today's engine market, where for example, Redbull find themselves in a sticky situation with Renault and have almost burnt the bridge by poor PR work, which to me makes the team look pretty stupid.

I never once remember Minardi whining to Ford about their JV-Zetec-R Engines

[bhall II]

It makes much more sense now. The actual technology in the F1 cars is a far cry from road cars, but if they can somehow relate the 2...the marketing is more effective. So F1 for manufacturers is not truly for R&D, but more to move a product.

That makes sense as to why rbr, sauber, williams and some of the others dont favor hybrids so much.

It's also my chief source of frustration with F1.

It would be one thing if current PUs represented an ambitious project designed to greatly improve the quality of "the show." The teething problems and other idiosyncrasies associated with their introduction would be more tolerable if that was the case. But, it's not.

The current PUs are the result of an ambitious project designed to greatly improve the automakers' bottom line, the quality of F1 be damned.

As none of us is employed by the manufacturers, it is very difficult for us to determine whether Formula One is or could be relevant for road cars. However, with the assumption that Formula One is purely for marketing, the new regulations are a step into the right direction.

You don't have to be an employee at any marque to realize there's only a superficial connection between F1 technology and road relevance. There's simply no scope within the regulations for any meaningful road-going R&D.

If there was, it would look more like this....



...instead of this:



It keeps going, too!

[Cold Fussion]

It's telling the LMP1 regulations are 72 pages long, which is in French and English, while the F1 regulations are 89 pages long for English only.

[SectorOne]

I´d love to see FIA make a rule saying you can build whatever engine you want but you only get 100kg´s of fuel for the race to power it.

Skip the ERS stuff until F1 moves to full electric machines in 15-20 years.

So you're free to do what ever you want except you can't have a hybrid system?

Free to build whatever engine you want, one that does not use any other means of propulsion other then gasoline.
Ers is nice and all but when 3 of the biggest manufacturers have trouble getting it to work properly maybe its better to leave it.

In 2010 nobody gave a sh about kers not being on the cars,

[Pingguest]

It's telling the LMP1 regulations are 72 pages long, which is in French and English, while the F1 regulations are 89 pages long for English only.

Exactly what I thought.

[rgava]

Combine a very restrictive set of rules (fixing almost anything) with token system and on-track tests ban and you get an awfull lot of money spent to go nowhere!
Mercedes won the lottery getting it right from the beggining (perhaps because they spent more that twice the resources before 2014 that their competitors).
Ferrari was able to almost fix it after one year.
Renault screwed it up and is not putting unlimited resources to fix it.
Honda seems to be going the same route.

For me, this is clearly a disaster!

But not the V6 formula with energy harvesting.

The real disaster is the way they did it in therms of rules.

Let's take only a few rules 1.6 Litres V6 Kinetic and thermal energy recovering and limited amount of fuel & fuel flow and leave them solve the puzzle in any way they want.

That's the way to go for innovation!

[Andres125sx]

For me, this is clearly a disaster!

But not the V6 formula with energy harvesting.

The real disaster is the way they did it in therms of rules.

So the V6 formula is not a disaster, the rules are

People complain a lot about current V6 formula, when they really should be complaining about rules. This is like if someone complained about V8s because rules didn´t allow any development, nosense

You can´t blame the engines because of the restrictions imposed by rules.


Real disaster for F1 are the rules, but not only engine related, but also those affecting aerodynamics (overtaking more and more dificult each year), tyres (drivers can´t push), development (engineers can´t do their job), money distribution (small teams are condemned to continue being small teams), F1 taxes (track attendance and TV audience decreasing season by season)... They´re ruining every single area

So IMO it would be a lot more accurate saying it´s the people in charge the real disaster for F1. Most of them did a great job some time ago, they put F1 at the highest level, but it´s needed new people with new ideas. They´ve tried theirselves, but evolution usually must come from new people.

Evolve or die. Unfortunately, F1 is dying. Not an opinion, you just need to look at audience and attendance numbers, decreasing constantly.

[sgth0mas]

The rules are the formula. Thats literally what the formula indicates.

[rgava]

The rules are the formula. Thats literally what the formula indicates.

For me, the formula is: "downsizing of the ICE + hybrid systems + fuel efficiency" The same formula is being allied on the WEC and it's working.
In my opinión this formula is fully relevant for the current and future Street Vehicles and is the good one if well instrumented in the rules book.

The rules are the way to deploy that formula and they did it in one of the worst posible way!

[FrukostScones]

It's a desaster for Renault and Honda.

[r_b_l]

It's a desaster for Renault and Honda.

Did anyone else cringe when they saw the F1 grid??? especially when they got to the rear of the grid?

These engine rules really need revision. It just looks bad, this is not how racing should be shaped in regards to Engine use. I don't see how any F1 team would want to gamble with Renault or Honda next season with these rules intact. Nor any new manufacturer willing to enter the sport, apart from getting a cheap engine deal.

Even if Honda are using this season for R&D its very possible that they will get more penalties later in the season in order to get data, push the engine and possibly......race?

It is also a bit worrying that it is only round 8 and both Renault & Honda have a long way to go this season.

[Moose]

It's a desaster for Renault and Honda.

Did anyone else cringe when they saw the F1 grid??? especially when they got to the rear of the grid?

These engine rules really need revision. It just looks bad, this is not how racing should be shaped in regards to Engine use. I don't see how any F1 team would want to gamble with Renault or Honda next season with these rules intact. Nor any new manufacturer willing to enter the sport, apart from getting a cheap engine deal.

Even if Honda are using this season for R&D its very possible that they will get more penalties later in the season in order to get data, push the engine and possibly......race?

It is also a bit worrying that it is only round 8 and both Renault & Honda have a long way to go this season.

I hated that Renault were allowed to equalise in the V8 era (and in fact, pull ahead of Merc). But really, in the V6 era, we need a period of free development to let Renault and Honda sort their act out. They need to be able to go back to the drawing board, rather than try to improve a flawed design.