Track limits, rule enforcements, good sportsmanship etc

[jjn9128]

The problem is that when the FIA try to put measures in place to stop the track being cut, all the drivers complain about it potentially damaging the cars.
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/mexi ... on-971121/
I don't see how a kerb will do more damage than a concrete wall but I guess it wont matter in 5 years when there are no more proper race circuits on the calendar.

I've said it before, but 2m of slippery paint (which doesn't take rubber) before a concrete run-off would be the best mix of dissuading track limit violations while maintaining a run-off for safety.

[notsofast]

I wonder what this would look like in football (both kinds). Build a moat around the field? The rule is quite well understood and referees are quite good at catching violations. You're out of bounds, the flag goes up, the penalty is applied. No need to resort to gimmicks that might result in harm.

[NathanOlder]

I think 1 meter of grass on the outside and inside of each corner where there is room to do it will be enough.

After the grass you can have a huge tarmac run off. That way you have the safety of slowing the cars down, yet if you put 2 wheels off the outside you will lose over half your grip and then be on the tarmac way outside. If you put 2 wheels on the grass on the inside the car wont be able to turn tighter and will slide back out to the track.

So if you cheat on the inside you wont get 4 wheels off, if you cheat on the outside you will end up very wide. Plus both cases will involve dirty tyres so will compromise corner exit.

I cant see any reason why this can't be done and will help. Any one think of any negatives ?

[mrluke]

I think 1 meter of grass on the outside and inside of each corner where there is room to do it will be enough.

After the grass you can have a huge tarmac run off. That way you have the safety of slowing the cars down, yet if you put 2 wheels off the outside you will lose over half your grip and then be on the tarmac way outside. If you put 2 wheels on the grass on the inside the car wont be able to turn tighter and will slide back out to the track.

So if you cheat on the inside you wont get 4 wheels off, if you cheat on the outside you will end up very wide. Plus both cases will involve dirty tyres so will compromise corner exit.

I cant see any reason why this can't be done and will help. Any one think of any negatives ?

I'mm pretty sure an F1 car could comfortably straddle a 1m strip of grass.

[strad]

Gravel traps are pretty fair enforcers, never seen any bias from them.

Gravel traps are biased to whoever's nearer the edge of the track. That means for example that someone pushing someone else wide will pretty much get away with it, because even if they're penalized, their opponent is stuck in a gravel trap.

.
Perhaps upside down as well.

[Edax]

I wonder what this would look like in football (both kinds). Build a moat around the field? The rule is quite well understood and referees are quite good at catching violations. You're out of bounds, the flag goes up, the penalty is applied. No need to resort to gimmicks that might result in harm.

So in soccer, if someone launches a 150 km/hr tackle at you and you jump the line to evade you get penalised?

Just saying.

[marmer]

I think 1 meter of grass on the outside and inside of each corner where there is room to do it will be enough.

After the grass you can have a huge tarmac run off. That way you have the safety of slowing the cars down, yet if you put 2 wheels off the outside you will lose over half your grip and then be on the tarmac way outside. If you put 2 wheels on the grass on the inside the car wont be able to turn tighter and will slide back out to the track.

So if you cheat on the inside you wont get 4 wheels off, if you cheat on the outside you will end up very wide. Plus both cases will involve dirty tyres so will compromise corner exit.

I cant see any reason why this can't be done and will help. Any one think of any negatives ?

I'mm pretty sure an F1 car could comfortably straddle a 1m strip of grass.

It would destabilise the car so much especially if the car had some wheels on tarmac just the grip difference alone. Just look at what happens in on damp tracks when they put slicks on they have to keep off the wet curbs


A easy possible way to solve it would be to drop the outside of the track a couple of inches the jolt would loose time and then they would have to go to a rejoin point or risk damage

[NathanOlder]

But that would risk the car quite a bit. Plus imagine if a car was sliding across the lip up side down. Would rip off the air box and risk the driver.

Up the grass strip to 2m so no cars could straddle the grass. Now i dont see any problems with stopping running off or driver safey

[notsofast]

I wonder what this would look like in football (both kinds). Build a moat around the field? The rule is quite well understood and referees are quite good at catching violations. You're out of bounds, the flag goes up, the penalty is applied. No need to resort to gimmicks that might result in harm.

So in soccer, if someone launches a 150 km/hr tackle at you and you jump the line to evade you get penalised?

Just saying.

In pretty much any sport, if someone commits a personal foul against you, then that other person gets a penalty. Otherwise, in soccer, if you kick the ball out of bounds, regardless of the circumstances, the flag goes up, and the other team gets the ball. There's no subjective judgment, and there's no need to build a wall around the field to keep the ball from going out of bounds. The ability to keep the ball within bounds is one of the things that separate good players from average players.

Any physical barrier that is designed to keep the game within bounds is going to have unintended consequences.

[Edax]

I wonder what this would look like in football (both kinds). Build a moat around the field? The rule is quite well understood and referees are quite good at catching violations. You're out of bounds, the flag goes up, the penalty is applied. No need to resort to gimmicks that might result in harm.

So in soccer, if someone launches a 150 km/hr tackle at you and you jump the line to evade you get penalised?

Just saying.

In pretty much any sport, if someone commits a personal foul against you, then that other person gets a penalty. Otherwise, in soccer, if you kick the ball out of bounds, regardless of the circumstances, the flag goes up, and the other team gets the ball. There's no subjective judgment, and there's no need to build a wall around the field to keep the ball from going out of bounds. The ability to keep the ball within bounds is one of the things that separate good players from average players.

Any physical barrier that is designed to keep the game within bounds is going to have unintended consequences.

Here complaining about the referees and rulings in soccer is like a national hobby. You call foul, I call schwalbe, who’s to say who is right?

I don’t know whether you can forward a sport which has spent the past 20 years analyzing video footage of “the hand of god” as the epitome of clear and precise judgement. If you are looking at an example of pure and uncontested sport you will probably end up at something like the Ukrainian Naturist Jeux de Boules Liga. (At least the clothing regulations are clear there.)

Otherwise rules in sport will always cause athletes to test and circumvent the rules. Sport ruling is like an arms race that is never complete and never satisfactory.

Just look at the F1 technical specifications. I pity these people who have to write a rulebook, and every year think they have everything solidly covered, only to be surprised by blown diffusors, oil burning engines, T wings, S ducts, F ducts, flex wings, flex floors, flex T trays, Fric, etc etc.

A physical barrier on the other hand is much harder to circumvent. You would be hard pressed to find someone who doesn’t believe that Celis hit a wall today.

[strad]

the drivers were tasked with finding an acceptable solution and according to reports it had to do with a one and a half cars width of grass...
I haven't seen the actual report but supposedly it's been in the hands of the FIA for months.
What I notice is that no one drives this way at Monaco or anywhere there penalty is instantaneous.

[marmer]

the drivers were tasked with finding an acceptable solution and according to reports it had to do with a one and a half cars width of grass...
I haven't seen the actual report but supposedly it's been in the hands of the FIA for months.
What I notice is that no one drives this way at Monaco or anywhere there penalty is instantaneous.

It's amazing how that works FIA must have some really good blinkers on.
Walls equal danger dispite the fact that only Lorenzo Bandini has died at the track in 1967.

Speaking of Monaco the only corner they cut is the swimming pool section where we see more crashes than anywhere else on the track.

[ChrisDanger]

FIA answer questions on Verstappen's last lap COTA penalty and track limits in general.

[notsofast]

At 1:02: "Leaving the track is not an offence in itself." (Didn't watch the rest. A 35 minute video for a 5-second incident??)

FIA needs to change the rule.

Football: out of bounds is out of bounds.
Soccer: out of bounds is out of bounds.
Baseball: out of bounds is out of bounds.
Tennis: out of bounds is out of bounds.
Volleyball: out of bounds is out of bounds.
And so on.

There are enough situations where the stewards need to make a subjective decision. Exceeding the track limits should not be one of them.

[Fulcrum]

Why don't they simply place 'temporary' gravel on the tarmac runoff areas for F1? It wouldn't need to be deep at all, certainly not deep enough to do anything but slow cars down; in effect it would function much a like a gravel/dirt road.

This would enable circuits to cater for other racing series that demand asphalt run-off, as the gravel could simply be washed away after an F1 event.