Mercedes W13

[Sieper]

What exactly did Sainz mean by this regarding the GPS: “I think it’s typical Mercedes, typical George, hyping up the others and then coming to the first race and blowing the competition away. As you can imagine, I don’t believe much. In the GPS we can already see what they’re doing. ”

They have very accurate GPS positioning data (are F1 teams allowed access to military grade positioning data?). So they can easily see the real acceleration the cars are capable off, even when lifting a bit later on. Or running real heavy, turned down. They know what eachothers engines are capable off.

I use a hammerhead Karoo2 (gps, bike computer) on my bicycle, it uses commercially available GPS and Glonass (the Russian gps system) and it is very accurate. Can even see which side of the bicycle path I rode on.

[Mchamilton]

What exactly did Sainz mean by this regarding the GPS: “I think it’s typical Mercedes, typical George, hyping up the others and then coming to the first race and blowing the competition away. As you can imagine, I don’t believe much. In the GPS we can already see what they’re doing. ”

Could be many things..
Super low power mode,
Lift and coast into the odd braking zone.

Or he means they can see their cornering speeds etc on the gps and when you put it all together..

[Marty_Y]

https://the-race.com/formula-1/hamilton ... -are-real/

HAMILTON: ‘TACKY DRIVING’ SHOWS MERCEDES’ TROUBLES ARE REAL

By Valentin Khorounzhiy

Lewis Hamilton says Mercedes Formula 1 drivers’ “oversteer moments and tacky driving” are evidence that the hybrid era’s dominant outfit isn’t hiding its performance in 2022 pre-season testing.

Mercedes has looked in subdued form on compound-corrected laptimes throughout both Barcelona and – so far – Bahrain testing, and what looked like a performance run attempted by the seven-time F1 champion on the second day of Sakhir testing was only good enough for fourth-fastest – despite him being on the softest C5 tyres compared to the C4s for the three cars ahead.

Hamilton’s new team-mate George Russell has been praising the performance of Ferrari’s new F1-75 car, but Carlos Sainz – who topped the regular four-hour session on day two before Kevin Magnussen improved in the extra hour given to Haas – argued this was “typical Mercedes” and said his team could see from GPS data that the W13 was being deliberately held back.

Asked about Sainz’s comments, Hamilton said: “We’ll be really, really, really good if we were having all these oversteer moments and tacky driving just to hide our cards!

“That’s not the case. We have things we’re trying to get through. Others are struggling less.

“Who knows, maybe when we’ll get to next week we’ll have a better understanding.”

The W13 has indeed looked a handful in Bahrain in both Hamilton and Russell’s hands, while brutal porpoising visible on many of its runs has also been clearly sub-optimal.

Hamilton cited “the wind and the bouncing” as the two major hurdles he’d faced on Friday, with the latter “worse, if anything” than it had been in the first test at Barcelona.

“We’re just working through lots of different scenarios trying to figure out how to hold onto the downforce and not have it bouncing as it was in the last test.

“I think everyone is probably in a similar boat. Some have managed to get around it in a better way. It’s just difficult out there.

“It’s bumpy, it’s slippery, it’s sandy. In the morning it’s way too hot. Afternoon it’s just gusty.

“It’s tough [to drive]. You can see on the onboards tankslappers left, right and centre, then bouncing and bumping.

“[The car is] not quite happy at the moment but we’re trying to tame it.”

“We’re exploring a range of set-up options to try and improve the bouncing – we have some directions that are able to improve this but finding the right balance between the bouncing and performance is clearly the challenge,” said Mercedes trackside engineering director Andrew Shovlin. “We’ve got a similar programme [to today] planned for tomorrow, but Lewis will do the higher fuel work and George the low fuel.”

[holeindalip]

After listening to some experts, trusted journalists, Aero-Experts and watching todays test, i made some thoughts - i underline - some thoughts

Isn't it possible that Mercedes realised that their car isn't leading the pack anymore and decided to go for less drag? Their concept did not put much effort in getting as much air as possible to the rear-wing and beamwing and creating more suction. Instead of that the had chosen to get as much air as possible over the top of the floor. But getting as much air as possible to the rearwing and beamwing is probably a much better solution with this kind of regulary. Maybe thats also the reason why Mercedes is suffering from porpoising more than others. I do not think its a coincidence that the two teams with small sidepod-concept/air over top of the diffusor concept(Mercedes and Williams)are hit hardest by porpoising. Couldn't it be possible that Mercedes realised their concept is not the way to go? But as they could not change their whole concept completely, they went radical and now try it with minimising the drag and getting even more air over the top of the diffusor? Couldn't the concept itself be the problem? That would be a disaster, as they could not change it without totally redesigning the car...

Its just some thoughts since i witnessed the horrible behaviour of Mercedes today...

They can easily re-design sidepods; it's just bodywork at the end of the day. Question is how would they have to amend front/beam wings, floors, etc.

Also, why would they go for less drag? And is their concept inherently less drag, especially after we've been told that it probably doesn't deal as well with tyre wake and drag as wider sidepods?

Its not as easy to just make bigger sidepods. They are part of the whole Aero-Concept, so i do not think you just can change your sidepods. That would conpromise your whole Aero-Philosophy.
And like you say - it would not solve their problem with the rear and beamwing. They cannot do that without redesigning their car completely.

They just changed their entire sidepod design, I think it would be easier this regulation to change side pod design than the last regulations. I say that because the wings were less simplified and bargeboards where pretty complicated. Simpler wings and no bargeboards, fia standard part on the front wheel covering, the packaging is already there to expand sidepods. The only problem is the budget cap…

[Stu]

What exactly did Sainz mean by this regarding the GPS: “I think it’s typical Mercedes, typical George, hyping up the others and then coming to the first race and blowing the competition away. As you can imagine, I don’t believe much. In the GPS we can already see what they’re doing. ”

What he is saying is that they are deliberately hiding pace (sandbagging), if it is visible on GPS it probably means that they are doing lift & coast through to the braking point along the straights.

[Marty_Y]

https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/news/2 ... n-russell/

The morning session on day two in Bahrain saw George complete a race distance and test the long-run performance of the W13, after some early rake-running and aero data collection. With the wind swirling and dusk falling, Lewis worked through various set-up items and completed a single lap tyre test programme in the second session of the day.

Andrew Shovlin
A packed day with a mix of work on low and high fuel as we continue to learn about the car and tyres. We’re exploring a range of setup options to try and improve the bouncing - we have some directions that are able to improve this but finding the right balance between the bouncing and performance is clearly the challenge. We’ve got a similar programme planned for tomorrow, but Lewis will do the higher fuel work and George the low fuel. We still have lots of work ahead of us but the car has been running reliably which has helped us get good mileage in and run our programme

[SICK AL SPEEDSHOP]

I really love all the beautiful details on the W13 B Spec version. Here are some great shots that show how slick these ultra low drag sidepods really are. Absolutely genius work of art on this fantastic and pure silver arrow. The sidepods are nearly as wide as the diffuser is. Also a good view of the cooling louvers on both pix.

pictures by Giorgio Piola
source: motorsport.com





link to full article with more interesting pictures and technical details

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/bahr ... 42/?nrt=54

[Andi76]

What exactly did Sainz mean by this regarding the GPS: “I think it’s typical Mercedes, typical George, hyping up the others and then coming to the first race and blowing the competition away. As you can imagine, I don’t believe much. In the GPS we can already see what they’re doing. ”

What he is saying is that they are deliberately hiding pace (sandbagging), if it is visible on GPS it probably means that they are doing lift & coast through to the braking point along the straights.

I also think they are not showing their hand. But i also think they have some serious problems as they cannot get rid of porpoising. And i do not think this is part of their sandbagging, because it would damage their programm. I also think think they did not put their money on the right concept, as this would mean that all the other teams are wrong and only Mercedes is right. And thats something i can't imagine, especially as they obviously have some problems. But we will see soon. Maybe its indeed Mercedes are the only ones who got it right again.

[shamyakovic]

What exactly did Sainz mean by this regarding the GPS: “I think it’s typical Mercedes, typical George, hyping up the others and then coming to the first race and blowing the competition away. As you can imagine, I don’t believe much. In the GPS we can already see what they’re doing. ”

What he is saying is that they are deliberately hiding pace (sandbagging), if it is visible on GPS it probably means that they are doing lift & coast through to the braking point along the straights.

I also think they are not showing their hand. But i also think they have some serious problems as they cannot get rid of porpoising. And i do not think this is part of their sandbagging, because it would damage their programm. I also think think they did not put their money on the right concept, as this would mean that all the other teams are wrong and only Mercedes is right. And thats something i can't imagine, especially as they obviously have some problems. But we will see soon. Maybe its indeed Mercedes are the only ones who got it right again.

They are able to get rid of the proposing, like they did with Russell's morning race run... as the quote from them suggests they are trying to find the balance between proposing and downforce levels.... its the same for everyone, merc are trying out every setup options possible

[dialtone]

https://i.redd.it/iuaaxyxgvsm81.jpg

The commentary on the graph doesn't seem correct. For example it's not true that Hamilton didn't open DRS, you can check the data from FastF1, as well as just watch the video feed and he certainly opens the DRS in his fast attempt. Haven't verified the rest of it but at least that bit seems incorrect to me.

[shamyakovic]

https://i.redd.it/iuaaxyxgvsm81.jpg

The commentary on the graph doesn't seem correct. For example it's not true that Hamilton didn't open DRS, you can check the data from FastF1, as well as just watch the video feed and he certainly opens the DRS in his fast attempt. Haven't verified the rest of it but at least that bit seems incorrect to me.

True, I also saw that lap from Lewis live in skysports f1, and he did open it

[dialtone]

https://i.redd.it/iuaaxyxgvsm81.jpg

The commentary on the graph doesn't seem correct. For example it's not true that Hamilton didn't open DRS, you can check the data from FastF1, as well as just watch the video feed and he certainly opens the DRS in his fast attempt. Haven't verified the rest of it but at least that bit seems incorrect to me.

I guess one comment I can make is that if the top speed bleeds down, and there's no throttle lift, my first thought would go to porpoising which ruins the ability of the car to keep the power down consistently. I would need to see harvesting so violent that it bleeds speed down like that.

[Mchamilton]

https://i.redd.it/iuaaxyxgvsm81.jpg

The commentary on the graph doesn't seem correct. For example it's not true that Hamilton didn't open DRS, you can check the data from FastF1, as well as just watch the video feed and he certainly opens the DRS in his fast attempt. Haven't verified the rest of it but at least that bit seems incorrect to me.

I guess one comment I can make is that if the top speed bleeds down, and there's no throttle lift, my first thought would go to porpoising which ruins the ability of the car to keep the power down consistently. I would need to see harvesting so violent that it bleeds speed down like that.

End of straight speed tails off because the battery stops deploying. Deployment is much more useful during heavy acceleration phases rather than end of straight.

[izzy]

Now they've got everyone saying okay it's legal they might open it up a bit tomorrow. On the gps thing, one way of hiding pace would be to just be a fraction late on the power, so then all the way down the straight you're a fraction slower. Brundle was talking about this.

Anyway they've been pretty bold with it so far haven't they, it's quite likely they've been pushing hard to get it as close to the ground as they possibly can and they'll just back it off a bit when they need to at the end. And I love how as Kyle supernerd explains the reason the inlets are that shape is to have the surfaces they want on the mirror wing so they can only have one in that X plane and it has to keep going out and not come back in making another surface. Gorgeous

if you haven't seen it

[Neuron]

Not lifting throttle is barely evidence if his engine map was somehow lower (don't rev up to max for instance).