2016 McLaren F1 Team - Honda

[a1b2i3r45]

I dont buy the mclaren's wet setup theory. There was only a 30% chance of light shower (wet setup is not a necessity to light drizzle). No one else gambled on that. The top speed deficit can be explained by inefficient drag and that 10 kph deficit contributed only a little portion of +1.5 sec to merc. I think mclaren will be ~2 sec off the pace at the next gp at baku.

[Sayeman]

I dont buy the mclaren's wet setup theory. There was only a 30% chance of light shower (wet setup is not a necessity to light drizzle). No one else gambled on that. The top speed deficit can be explained by inefficient drag and that 10 kph deficit contributed only a little portion of +1.5 sec to merc. I think mclaren will be ~2 sec off the pace at the next gp at baku.

Mclaren overly complicate things for themselves.
You would think with a weak PU they would go for the Low drag setup since it's harder to overtake in the corners and that increased drag just made them sitting ducks on the straight.
Also think Honda has hit the ceiling with this current PU layout, that's why they are so reluctant on introducing updates because the gain would be minimal.
Considering how much Renault has gained for a paltry 3 tokens, expected bit more from Honda.

[mrluke]

From the data posted above I would suggest the problem was more related to tire wear than fuel saving. Bottas went ~35% further on the USU than Alonso.

Bottas averaged around a 1:17.1 from lap 60 onwards while Alonso did a single lap below 1:17.5. How do you deduce that Bottas was pushing as hard as Alonso during this period?

Despite Mclaren admitting they had a draggy, high downforce setup, the forum still appears certain that If it wasn't for a "useless" Honda PU Mclaren would have been on the podium.

Torro Rosso outperformed Mclaren at Monaco, the circuit least affected by PU. Mclaren outperformed TR at Canada where PU is more important.

I dont think there is very much between Renault 2016, Ferrari 2015 and Honda 2016 and I have yet to see any kind of substantiated argument that shows otherwise.

[OviJohn]

From the data posted above I would suggest the problem was more related to tire wear than fuel saving. Bottas went ~35% further on the USU than Alonso.

Bottas averaged around a 1:17.1 from lap 60 onwards while Alonso did a single lap below 1:17.5. How do you deduce that Bottas was pushing as hard as Alonso during this period?

Despite Mclaren admitting they had a draggy, high downforce setup, the forum still appears certain that If it wasn't for a "useless" Honda PU Mclaren would have been on the podium.

Torro Rosso outperformed Mclaren at Monaco, the circuit least affected by PU. Mclaren outperformed TR at Canada where PU is more important.

I dont think there is very much between Renault 2016, Ferrari 2015 and Honda 2016 and I have yet to see any kind of substantiated argument that shows otherwise.

No one here can´t say for sure if Bottas was pushing as hard as Alonso. But, you just have to follow the lap time trends from lap 65 up until 64 when Bottas nailed a Fastests Lap (Same trend on Alonso). So one cant say who was pushing harder, but surely, both were pushing out of the "steady delta time" before the end of the race.

[superdowg316]

I really don't know whether I should be happy that with a wet setup Alonso was only half a second off Bottas in third or dumbfounded as to why McLaren betted on a wet setup when it never looked like it was going to rain at all let alone enough to make it work.

I think a podium is a bit optimistic. Best Alonso could have done in the perfect race for that car with no bungled pitstops and no high downforce could have probably been P6 at best with Jenson P8. The engine is better, but it's the decisions they make with setup that's costing them. They could've gotten some good points in Canada, but blew it and unless they somehow have great straight line speed for the long front straight in Baku they won't have that chance again until Silverstone at the earliest, Hungary at the latest.

[Sasha]

The biggest problem with Mclaren now is the team. They just have been second rate running the team during race weekends all season.This past race they took a gamble with a wet setup(high df/drag and soft springs) and only one stop.(the only team to do this) That cost Alonso a points finish.

The Car and PU is solid mid-field now.(should be scoring points every race )

Is it because...

1)they have the wrong people?
or
2)over thinking it?

[godlameroso]

I think part of it has to do with them just debuting the new turbo, fuel and some new chassis upgrades. They haven't really been able to maximize the potential of their new upgrades. Remember when Force India introduced their B-Spec update last year in Silverstone, it took them a few races to really get on top of their upgrades.

[Sevach]

Totally agree.

As further proof (Bolded arguments) heres Bottas vs Alonso last 5 laps and stint summary:

http://i66.tinypic.com/2hxvvuu.jpg

- Both are on the same tyre strategy (Alonsos 5 laps older)
- Both decided to go for "quick lap" at then end; and yet Alonso fastest lap is just 0.369 slower.

As stated by Chicane, the pace is "there" but the PU is not able to sustain it throughout a full race. So all we really need at this stage is efficiency. That alone can allow the team to achieve on merit 7 to 10 on a incident free GP.

Bottas "quick lap" is 2 tenths faster then his regular pace... which tells me it's just his regular consistent pace.

He didn't turn anything up or deployed all energy in one lap to go .369 faster then Alonso doing that.

[McG]

Not good. Not looking forward to Baku.

[diffuser]

The biggest problem with Mclaren now is the team. They just have been second rate running the team during race weekends all season.This past race they took a gamble with a wet setup(high df/drag and soft springs) and only one stop.(the only team to do this) That cost Alonso a points finish.

The Car and PU is solid mid-field now.(should be scoring points every race )

Is it because...

1)they have the wrong people?
or
2)over thinking it?

They obviously don't have alot of confidence in their package

[godlameroso]

We have no clue how the circuit is going to run. On the one hand it's very narrow in parts, there's some high speed stuff that's made difficult because it's done in narrow parts. At least they don't have to gamble with the setup, it's going to be bone dry as it's just about every freaking day.

[Thunder]

Despite Mclaren admitting they had a draggy, high downforce setup, the forum still appears certain that If it wasn't for a "useless" Honda PU Mclaren would have been on the podium.

A don't think anyone talked about Podiums. We're talking P8 - 10 here. In my Case stricty P10.

Edit:
To the People not believing the Wet Setup Theory. Here's a quote from the famous muramasa on the Autosport Forums. It is from Hasagawa in a Japanese Interview.

that's exactly what Hasegawa said after Quali, "lack of power is obvious, but we expect rain tomo so putting more df which also contributes"
http://www.as-web.jp/f1/22151

[mclaren111]

Hasegawa:

“We knew we were around tenth, ninth or eleventh so it is not the biggest surprise that we can finish eleventh,” Hasegawa said. “But because fuel consumption is very tough in this circuit Fernando needed to save fuel almost for the whole race. That’s cost us very much, I think.

Says it all

[Jef Patat]

... and only one stop.(the only team to do this) That cost Alonso a points finish.

And the race winner?

[GoranF1]

https://twitter.com/F1sMyDrug/status/742659816305393664 Last 5 laps Alonso did not save fuel....engine is the worst on the grid whit least power...but super poor effcienty is even more of a problem than pure power.