2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[El Scorchio]

.... making braking in the middle of the track .....

David Coulthard said there was no issue ..... as there was plenty of room (to pass) on both sides

That would be ex Red Bull driver David Coulthard? Interesting he of all people should have that opinion.

[Jolle]

Lewis didn't know Max was giving the place back, I'd say it's the FIA trying to cover over the fact Masi made some real blunders
during the race yesterday. If the fault is anyone's then I'd place it at Masi's door.

Of course he did know ... if he actually didn't know he would have overtaken Verstappen. Verstappen could've a sudden failure... you won't hang around to find out would you??
He deliberately held back not to pass the DRS line and played dumbfounded, works much better to fool people.

Have you missed how Verstappen thinks?

Verstappen has a sudden failure as you say and he’s just going to let his title contender sail past and in doing almost certainly claim the WDC? Come on you can’t be that naive. This Max Verstappen, there is no way on earth he has a failure and then allows Hamilton to finish to pretty much sew up the WDC. Hamilton knows this. To quote a certain F1 commentator Hamilton was treating Verstappen’s car like the back end of a Donkey.

Exactly. For Hamilton, it was very risky to overtake at that moment. Just imagine if Damon Hill had a moment of patience in 1994. And his patience was right. He didn’t get a swipe, he got a brake test.

[rifrafs2kees]

you are trolling, look a video from above, and his camera on mercedes is on left side and lens is making distortion of what is seen, so sorry

The camera is barely off the centreline, and the lens distortion is even across the field of view. You are the troll here.

please look this video and then comment, thank you

https://youtu.be/TLGAeCGl8R4

Lol, can't make this up. The only comment in the video says "brake testing and weaving.."

[rifrafs2kees]

[El Scorchio]

The camera is barely off the centreline, and the lens distortion is even across the field of view. You are the troll here.

please look this video and then comment, thank you

https://youtu.be/TLGAeCGl8R4

Lol, can't make this up. The only comment in the video says "brake testing and weaving.."

It is simply appalling driving when you see it again. He’s incredibly lucky 10 seconds and two points is all he got.

[west52keep64]

He asked "why move across to the left about a second after". 5 seconds is a lot of track to cover going 250+ kph. Looked like the before shot was coming into the turn.

here is the track just before the accident. Looked like there was room to pass. I personally don't care either way. I'm not saying it wasn't an a-hole move by Verstappen, but Hamilton is not as innocent in all this either.

What exactly is Hamilton guilty of here? He didn't know at that point Verstappen had been told to yield the position. All he knows is Verstappen is slowing, and appears to be trying to get the DRS activation for some reason. There's no rule that says Hamilton is obligated to pass Verstappen, and I'm not sure why Hamilton could have ever anticipated Verstappen would apply the brakes at this point of the track during racing conditions. As far as Hamilton knows, he's racing Verstappen, so why should he allow him to get the DRS activation?

[dans79]

Lewis didn't know Max was giving the place back, I'd say it's the FIA trying to cover over the fact Masi made some real blunders
during the race yesterday. If the fault is anyone's then I'd place it at Masi's door.

Of course he did know ... if he actually didn't know he would have overtaken Verstappen. Verstappen could've a sudden failure... you won't hang around to find out would you??
He deliberately held back not to pass the DRS line and played dumbfounded, works much better to fool people.

Have you missed how Verstappen thinks?

Verstappen has a sudden failure as you say and he’s just going to let his title contender sail past and in doing almost certainly claim the WDC? Come on you can’t be that naive. This Max Verstappen, there is no way on earth he has a failure and then allows Hamilton to finish to pretty much sew up the WDC. Hamilton knows this. To quote a certain F1 commentator Hamilton was treating Verstappen’s car like the back end of a Donkey.

Yup, I'd be just as cautious with Max myself initially. Post incident would a different story.

[Just_a_fan]

footage from helicopter shows that hamilton had more than enough space on left si your statements are without proof

But Hamilton wasn't in the helicopter, was he? He was seeing it from roughly the angle we are seeing it in the onboard shots. And he was also having to work out what Verstappen was doing and why. So your argument is fallacious.

don't make me laugh, drivers than come in first corner with 250km/h and such a huge traffic and manage to pass it untouched now have problems on straight with one car letting them pass

Hamilton had no idea what Verstappen was doing or why. You're looking at it as an outsider with all of the information available to you.

[Just_a_fan]

Yes, it's a very gray area but not illegal or f*cked up like most fans are screaming. They are both racing to WIN and Hamilton plays verbal part better than Verstappen.
In my opinion Hamilton deserved a penalty because he obviously knew what Verstappen was up to. But the FIA doesn't work that way, that's what bothers me more than the penalty itself.

Do you penalize the one braking to force the one that needs to overtake or do you penalize the one that drives into the back of the one you refuse to overtake?

Simple! You penalize the guy who suddenly brakes where he need not brake. Same rule on the race track as public streets. This is so simple.

Seems it differs between countries/continents? The one colliding in the rear is always at fault here in Europe. The penalty can only get lower due to evidence, but nothing more.
Verstappen didn't suddenly brake, he lifted first and braked later... there's a f*cking difference.

That's not true. Ever heard of "crash for cash"? It was a bit of thing a few years ago where a car full of people would swerve in front of another car and then brake so that the other car had no chance to avoid the accident. They then all claim for whiplash compensation. But lots of people got dash cams and the scammers ended up getting arrested and charged for causing an accident.

So, no, the person behind is not always at fault.

[rifrafs2kees]

I miss Charlie. But wasn't he around when Max was break checking the likes of Raikkonen; he walked scot free then.
The fia has had a history of incompetence, particularly with Max.

[Just_a_fan]

Edd Straw says it well:

It’s clear that race control and the stewards have lost control of what happens on track in F1. The recent inconsistencies and the justifications used have come home to roost, creating a situation where drivers know they can push the limits, and indeed are obliged to given what is at stake.

Regardless of where you stand on how interventionalist the stewards, and indeed race control, should be, what’s happened recently has become too erratic and unpredictable. Such uncertainty has played a part in the incidents and arguments that shaped this race. The drivers have complained about it and this madcap race shows the consequences that follow on from that.

https://the-race.com/formula-1/our-verd ... -saudi-gp/

Exactly. The "let them race" rubbish has resulted in a situation where the drivers no longer know what is and isn't going to be allowed from one race to the next. Max runs Lewis massively off track in Brazil and "it's fine, no problem", Lewis runs Max a bit off track in SA and it's "don't do that again that's naughty". Well, what is it guys? Ok or naughty?

[Just_a_fan]

you are trolling, look a video from above, and his camera on mercedes is on left side and lens is making distortion of what is seen, so sorry

The camera is barely off the centreline, and the lens distortion is even across the field of view. You are the troll here.

please look this video and then comment, thank you

https://youtu.be/TLGAeCGl8R4

You can clearly see Max makes two moves to the left as Hamilton is approaching and then brakes after the second move. Slam dunk. Thanks for the evidence.

[littlebigcat]

Well, what is it guys? Ok or naughty?

Its both. Masi said after Brazil that different stewards would judge it differently.

[radosav]

But Hamilton wasn't in the helicopter, was he? He was seeing it from roughly the angle we are seeing it in the onboard shots. And he was also having to work out what Verstappen was doing and why. So your argument is fallacious.

don't make me laugh, drivers than come in first corner with 250km/h and such a huge traffic and manage to pass it untouched now have problems on straight with one car letting them pass

Hamilton had no idea what Verstappen was doing or why. You're looking at it as an outsider with all of the information available to you.

so many times leading driver had a problem with car and slow down and driver behind would just go by, and now 7 time wdc was confused so he slowed down and followed car in front few meters behind, lol

[NathanOlder]

Of course he did know ... if he actually didn't know he would have overtaken Verstappen. Verstappen could've a sudden failure... you won't hang around to find out would you??
He deliberately held back not to pass the DRS line and played dumbfounded, works much better to fool people.

breaktest worth of 2.6 G deacceleration ==> DSQ. there is no buts or ifs....

There was no brake check... and it was only 2.4G for a moment and barely worth mentioning like @foxmulder_ms says.

2.4g was probably all about Max xould manage at that speed. Yes F1 cars can pull 5G braking at 200mph, but that's with all the downforce that goes with it. At the speed max was doing at the time, 2.4G was possibly all the car could manage.