2024 Mclaren Formula 1 Team

[geogate]

Norris was excellent all weekend - why wouldnt mclaren fans recognise and appreciate that as a strong performance - seems a bit churlish to complain of that

[venkyhere]

You can't deny that his driving wasn't brilliant this time as he barely had the fastest car.

I don't want to participate in the debate going on (which is irrelevant, McLaren are the champions and deservedly so) as to how much pressure Lando was under, was it a regulation drive or a champions drive etc etc.

But please don't use wrong facts to support your arguments. The McLaren wasn't just 'barely faster' than the rest in AbuDhabi, it was 'seriously faster' in the hands of Lando Norris. We saw it during FP1-FP2 itself. In the race on Sunday, the laptimes were consistently 1/2 a second faster (sometimes even 0.8s or 1.0s) than Ferrari. Lando was just 'bringing it home' without taking any risk and had loads of laptime in his pocket.

[Darth-Piekus]

I respect your opinion but allow me to have a different one. I have never seen Lando's car having that much load of laptimes to give in the whole race anywhere on Sunday and we are talking about Lando who used to crack under 0 pressure sometimes this year. Considering the circumstances (has to be first at all costs, possible DNF, pit stop problems and possible SC) he did a champions work considering the pressure he had all day.

[mwillems]

You can't deny that his driving wasn't brilliant this time as he barely had the fastest car.

I don't want to participate in the debate going on (which is irrelevant, McLaren are the champions and deservedly so) as to how much pressure Lando was under, was it a regulation drive or a champions drive etc etc.

But please don't use wrong facts to support your arguments. The McLaren wasn't just 'barely faster' than the rest in AbuDhabi, it was 'seriously faster' in the hands of Lando Norris. We saw it during FP1-FP2 itself. In the race on Sunday, the laptimes were consistently 1/2 a second faster (sometimes even 0.8s or 1.0s) than Ferrari. Lando was just 'bringing it home' without taking any risk and had loads of laptime in his pocket.

Did you take a look at the tyre drop off on mediums and the push laps on hards, or try to work out how a consistent .5-1s gap adds up over time?
On the medium stint Lando was barely faster and had similar deg, so for the first 26 laps, it probably was not faster but was given the advantage by clean air.

On the hards we were faster, you can see there is more time in the car as we didn't really move from our laptime delta. The only time Lando had some slow laps was to cool the tyres for some hot laps. It is likely Lando was happy for Carlos to be in his dirty air for as long as possible which makes me think it wasn't huge amounts faster and they were being cautious with the tyres. You can see that Lando's push laps were only 1s faster than his delta, so it is likely that over the course of the race he was only a little bit faster, and this is probably down to the clean air. He might perhaps have been able to go .2-.3s faster a lap and keep his tyres in the right zone, but this is hindsight.

Darth Piekus is right in that one mistake could have put him second and the championship lost for Mclaren, so yeah, it was a very measured drive from him and I'm sure that it could well have been a high pressure situation for him.

FP1 and FP2 are meaningless, and using them as "facts" of representative pace is really a little hypocritical given your own statements. Also, it's hard to get to lap 57, having been consistently between .5 and 1s per lap faster, and only be 7.7 seconds ahead. If you average your lap delta to .75s per lap then by lap 57 he would be 42 seconds ahead. At .5s a lap faster on average he'd be 26.5s ahead. So this statement is patently false.

[Darth-Piekus]

Amen.

[BMMR61]

Except that this was not just any other race. This was the title decider. There was much less pressure before Max took out Oscar, but after that, the pressure was real. Ferrari was there. One mistake could have changed everything. Champions have cracked in much lesser situations.

You guys are losing your minds here.

The act of 'simply not crashing' is not what the term 'a drive of a champion' was ever meant for. You guys are lowering the bar to an embarrassing degree.

It's ok to admit Norris didn't do anything special, but did what was required in the moment for the team when even the most minimal result would have sufficed.

He's also the guy who spent most of the season with the fastest car and didn't even come close to winning the title, so I think any kind of 'drive of a champion' moniker doesn't fit him in general, especially when the big accolade you're giving him in this specific situation is, "He didn't crash out". I mean, jesus christ. Let's have some standards here.

Only those who eat your poison biscuits Sean.

While the pressure Lando sustained from Carlos, often around 2 seconds apart and with the threatened undercut it was plenty of pressure. Maybe not quite the level of pressure that Oscar sustained at Baku from Charles but then the title wasn't on the line. Most McLaren fans are gracious enough to acknowledge the amazing job Max has done, especially this year. It wasn't me that claimed Lando drove "the drive of a champion" and I think that's somewhat of an overstatement, but your mockery makes little sense as the dust settles on a great season. You sound quite an embittered person from the tone of your comments. McLaren love to beat the red team as it is part of a very old tradition but we still have enormous respect for them over there, a shame you can't be as magnanimous in defeat.

[basti313]

Except that this was not just any other race. This was the title decider. There was much less pressure before Max took out Oscar, but after that, the pressure was real. Ferrari was there. One mistake could have changed everything. Champions have cracked in much lesser situations.

You guys are losing your minds here.

The act of 'simply not crashing' is not what the term 'a drive of a champion' was ever meant for. You guys are lowering the bar to an embarrassing degree.

It's ok to admit Norris didn't do anything special, but did what was required in the moment for the team when even the most minimal result would have sufficed.

He's also the guy who spent most of the season with the fastest car and didn't even come close to winning the title, so I think any kind of 'drive of a champion' moniker doesn't fit him in general, especially when the big accolade you're giving him in this specific situation is, "He didn't crash out". I mean, jesus christ. Let's have some standards here.

Only those who eat your poison biscuits Sean.

While the pressure Lando sustained from Carlos, often around 2 seconds apart and with the threatened undercut it was plenty of pressure. Maybe not quite the level of pressure that Oscar sustained at Baku from Charles but then the title wasn't on the line. Most McLaren fans are gracious enough to acknowledge the amazing job Max has done, especially this year. It wasn't me that claimed Lando drove "the drive of a champion" and I think that's somewhat of an overstatement, but your mockery makes little sense as the dust settles on a great season. You sound quite an embittered person from the tone of your comments. McLaren love to beat the red team as it is part of a very old tradition but we still have enormous respect for them over there, a shame you can't be as magnanimous in defeat.

This post is neither reality nor understandable.

Reality: After 5 racing laps at the beginning Lando had 4sec gap to Carlos. That was what they needed to keep out of undercut range. From that point on they were managing until the pitstop. Same after the pitstop. Carlos tried to keep up for 5 laps, then Lando put in faster laptimes until they had the 4sec gap back. There was no pressure, this race was 80% managing lap times, only 10-15% done faster than Carlos.

Understandable: No idea what you are telling. Sean is correctly asking for some standard. Lando and McLaren finally drove a clean Q and race. Something you would expect quite often from a championship contender, right? And the problem of the season that robbed us from competition in the WDC.

[mwillems]

The gap after 5 laps was 2.89 seconds, not 5, 2.7 after 7 laps.

Seems fairly clear that the drive wasn't without pressure. He was faster than Sainz, but not by enough that he was able to create enough of a gap to make 1st more secure, because otherwise I'm certain he would have done that. Given the many bungles over the season, the gap of 3+ seconds maintained over that first stint was not a safe gap. At the end of the stint, Landos deg was visibly higher than Sainz on mediums. The gap steadily increased to 4.3s on lap 21, then decreased over 3 laps to 3.8 seconds before Carlos pitted because he could push more and we couldn't.

After 7 laps on hards, the gap was 2.1s, but Carlos tyres were cooking by this point and he had to give up a little delta and on those final 24 laps Carlos lost 5.8 seconds steadily to be 7.9 seconds behind.

Lando was running to his own delta and hence the gap wasn't maintaining but generally growing slightly, in part due to the benefit of clean air, but he wasn't able to create much of a gap himself, rather waiting for Carlos to struggle. Lando's pace was the pace they were comfortable he could do with the car. As such, the gap was for the main not that big that one off couldn't put him in second and do the same to Mclaren in the WCC.

It also seems fairly clear that Lando did exactly what we would expect him to do, that if any mistake occurred then it wouldn't be understandable or received well by many fans. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that if he made a mistake again, then it would have cemented his rep as a bungler.

[FittingMechanics]

Anyone who paid attention throughout the race could see that Norris was faster but just barely. Maybe a tenth or two a lap. But with how undercut works that gets cut down.

Norris (and McLaren) were not shy to put a big lead on others when they had the pace (Zaandvoort, Singapore, etc). I am sure that Norris would have made the gap bigger if he was able to do it easily. Obviously with the high stakes they probably played it super safe with the tyre life but it wasn't a simple dominant win that some are claiming.

This was highest stake race of Lando's career where any mistake would have meant McLaren loses WCC and he is bashed heavily on social media. Just imagine how many "he bottled it" posts there would be. He did exceptionally well to drive under such a pressure what is really a perfect race. This was in effect Max type race where he did not put a foot wrong and used any pace the car had to make what looks like an "easy" win. This was anything but easy given the situation (Lando has to win to take WCC).

Someone said that Lando's wins improved throughout the year, that is very good point.

[Emag]

I don’t get this incentive people have to make undermining comments here about any sort of achievement

What exactly is the point of going into the thread just to reply to a compliment-giving comment : “Actually you’re overreacting, he wasn’t really that impressive”

And then proceed to double down on that statement coming up with what I call delusion data to practically say, “he actually did nothing, as you can see even my blind grandma would have won that race”.

Don’t understand this hate.

[Seanspeed]

It wasn't me that claimed Lando drove "the drive of a champion" and I think that's somewhat of an overstatement

Good lord, so you've actually agreed with me this whole time, yet still wanted to argue anyways.

The internet can be so seriously tiring, I swear.

[Seanspeed]

I don’t get this incentive people have to make undermining comments here about any sort of achievement

What exactly is the point of going into the thread just to reply to a compliment-giving comment : “Actually you’re overreacting, he wasn’t really that impressive”

And then proceed to double down on that statement coming up with what I call delusion data to practically say, “he actually did nothing, as you can see even my blind grandma would have won that race”.

Don’t understand this hate.

Complete strawman position. I merely disagreed with the fairly obviously ridiculous notion that Norris' race was a 'drive of a champion' and think I put forth a pretty good case for it.

He did fine. He's a good driver and did what was needed and expected of him given he had the fastest car. It was a total 'management' race and nothing more. Mclaren's WCC was all but assured. All Norris had to do was not crash. That's hardly warranting of some extreme praise like 'drive of a champion'.

I'm not trying to crap on Norris here, just countering an extremely obvious hyperbolic comment. You all know perfectly well I'm being reasonable here as well, but MUST make a big show of it anyways. smh

[BMMR61]

I don’t get this incentive people have to make undermining comments here about any sort of achievement

What exactly is the point of going into the thread just to reply to a compliment-giving comment : “Actually you’re overreacting, he wasn’t really that impressive”

And then proceed to double down on that statement coming up with what I call delusion data to practically say, “he actually did nothing, as you can see even my blind grandma would have won that race”.

Don’t understand this hate.

Complete strawman position. I merely disagreed with the fairly obviously ridiculous notion that Norris' race was a 'drive of a champion' and think I put forth a pretty good case for it.

He did fine. He's a good driver and did what was needed and expected of him given he had the fastest car. It was a total 'management' race and nothing more. Mclaren's WCC was all but assured. All Norris had to do was not crash. That's hardly warranting of some extreme praise like 'drive of a champion'.

I'm not trying to crap on Norris here, just countering an extremely obvious hyperbolic comment. You all know perfectly well I'm being reasonable here as well, but MUST make a big show of it anyways. smh

It just sounded rather trollish after all that had been dumped here. If that isn't you then you gave the impression of another one climbing on the "bottled it" bandwagon. The McLaren forum has tended to be at least as vitriolic on weekends that the team did well - Singapore where Lando dominated (but he had a couple of close encounters with the ever present barriers), and Hungary where the pit-wall screwed the order and set off the "team orders" bleating. It's been a long season Sean and many here (myself included) have had enough of the nitpicking (not saying that's you), as beating the old foe was a good reward. I haven't heard of endless griping about Ferrari dropping the ball, they had a good season.

Finally, how can the team get so much criticism when it went from 302 points and 4th in 2023, to 666 and 1st in 2024 and both it's drivers getting their first GP wins mutiple?

[mwillems]

It wasn't me that claimed Lando drove "the drive of a champion" and I think that's somewhat of an overstatement

Good lord, so you've actually agreed with me this whole time, yet still wanted to argue anyways.

The internet can be so seriously tiring, I swear.

Well don't run headlong into the internet by making these other comments, which are the ones folks were disagreeing with. You're the master of your own destiny here

No pressure and as easy as a job it gets? Nah lol

Hyperbole is a form of exaggeration, much like the "case" you made to back up your own statements.
If you stand on a treadmill and press go, don't then complain that you had to run!

We can all agree that Lando Norris drove like a champion on a race where the pressure was huge. He made the perfect start and gave no chance to Sainz for anything more than 2nd place.

He led from pole in the fastest car with no real pressure to his position at any point in the race.

That's about as easy a job as it gets in F1. Not saying he isn't good or it wasn't a decent enough job for what they needed, but calling it the drive of a champion is bizarre.

[Darth-Piekus]

Seanspeed by the logic you provided you can also agree that Max Verstappen, Lewis Hamilton, Michael Schumacher, Mika Hakkinen and Damon Hill haven't done anything spectacular since they had the best car, starting from pole with no real pressure to their position at any point during their championships.