2025 McLaren F1 Team

[AR3-GP]

My take: Mclaren has been protecting Norris all season long. I think that internally Mclaren are overcompensating for criticisms that they did not support Norris enough last year. So they decided to "back" Norris for the title thinking that Piastri would have the same weaknesses as last year. What they did not anticipate was Piastri's growth and Norris continuing to lack the strength to be the team leader that they want him to be. It was on full display with the stupid driving at the pitstop where he risked damaging the floor, and then missing the final chicane on the last lap. So now it is an awkward dance for Stella because the driver who seems to be stronger tactically, mentally, and speedwise in the races (Piastri) must be undermined to keep Norris ahead.

It started with the team order against Oscar at his home race (also the 1st GP of the year), and the baloney excuse that the fans ate up. Then it continued with refusing to swap the cars here in Japan simply because Norris would have lost out if Oscar passed Max when Norris couldn't. To highlight the hypocrisy, it was at this very race last year in Japan that Lando Norris groveled for team orders to be let past Oscar to secure the better team result. Mclaren granted him that team order. Now 12 months later at the same circuit, they refuse Oscar the same thing? Didn't Andrea Stella say the team would come first? That only seems to be relevant when it can be used to protect Norris and undermine Oscar...

The cracks are starting to appear in my opinion. Stella openly discredited Oscar's performance by claiming after the race that Lando was saving his tires which was a lie because Oscar's engineer told Oscar that Lando had no more pace... Stella claimed that Mclaren team comes first, yet denied Oscar the opportunity to better the team result. Stella said you needed at least 8 tenths to attack. Oscar was inside Lando's DRS and attacking for 10 laps. Oscar was faster than Lando, and Lando was faster than Max, but both Mclarens were losing in the dirty air. If Oscar (the fastest car) could stay in the DRS of the 2nd fastest car (Lando) then he would have been all over the back of the third fastest car (Verstappen) as one could logically deduce. So I'm not buying any excuses that Stella has given.

Stella is flustered by the situation and his wrong bet. That's when the contradictions and defensiveness start to come out. All of it looks like Stella trying like mad to protect Norris as they must have established that they wanted him to win the WDC this year. It's all come undone because you can't force a driver to be WDC when they are not showing the qualities to take it themselves. There's still time for Norris to up his game, but for now it just looks like Stella made a bad bet before the season started and now is forced to see it through even though he must undermine Piastri and contradict himself to do it while praying that Lando doesn't make him live to regret it.

[genarro]

there is no pleaseing to you crowd... both drivers are racing to win. If Oscar would qualify in front of Lando he would have the chance to fight for the win. But he didnt.

The circumstances of yesterdays race were such that it was imposible to overtake and the tyre offset to undertake was diminished because of the rain. A unwatchable boring race. For me the most important thing is the constructors lead has increased.

[mwillems]

Piastri undermined himself, as did both drivers on Saturday. Oscar was then given every chance to fight and couldn't get past.

Last year in Japan Oscar was barely into his second year and now he has a new contract and I suspect that the Papaya rules were updated to reflect that one driver wouldn't be advantaged unless there was a need in the constructors. There was last year, but this year we are already getting clear.

In any case I wouldn't have released Piastri, I've no issue with this decision.

[AR3-GP]

Piastri undermined himself, as did both drivers on Saturday. Oscar was then given every chance to fight and couldn't get past.

Last year in Japan Oscar was barely into his second year and now he has a new contract and I suspect that the Papaya rules were updated to reflect that one driver wouldn't be advantaged unless there was a need in the constructors. There was last year, but this year we are already getting clear.

In any case I wouldn't have released Piastri, I've no issue with this decision.

I understand your point and it's fair but, in that case, Mclaren can never ask Piastri to move over like last year otherwise it would just prove my point. I feel they are needlessly trapping themselves. Stella said the team comes first but they can no longer implement that without looking like hypocrites. The team did not come first in Japan for some reason... They now have to hold themselves to the fact that if Piastri cannot be granted a team order in his favor in this kind of situation, then Norris can never benefit either. This ultimately just hurts the team result.

[mwillems]

Piastri undermined himself, as did both drivers on Saturday. Oscar was then given every chance to fight and couldn't get past.

Last year in Japan Oscar was barely into his second year and now he has a new contract and I suspect that the Papaya rules were updated to reflect that one driver wouldn't be advantaged unless there was a need in the constructors. There was last year, but this year we are already getting clear.

In any case I wouldn't have released Piastri, I've no issue with this decision.

I understand your point and it's fair but, in that case, Mclaren can never ask Piastri to move over like last year otherwise it would just prove my point. I feel they are needlessly trapping themselves. Stella said the team comes first but they can no longer implement that without looking like hypocrites. The team did not come first in Japan for some reason... They now have to hold themselves to the fact that if Piastri cannot be granted a team order in his favor in this kind of situation, then Norris can never benefit either. This ultimately just hurts the team result.

I don't think they will now, and apparently his new contract may say something about when he can be expected to move, but this may well be conjecture. His new contract elevates him anyway to the same or similar level to Lando and I suspect we'll see Stella talking later in the season about the difficulties of handling two number ones.

The only issue I had with the handling of the drivers was with the pit strategy, which felt more like they were trying not to advantage one driver or another rather than going for the win.

But I get your opinion and time will tell how it pans out. Ultimately the drivers have no right to blame anyone but themselves. The car can clearly be driven fast at every corner , it's the drivers that have issues, not the car. It's peaky when driven a way it doesn't like, it seems, but that's not saying that it isn't consistent in how it needs to be driven because whilst it is peaky in the hairpin for Lando, it isn't for Oscar. And where Lando was good in T2, Oscar not so much.

If Lando says any more about the car being tricky, they should get Daniel Ricciardo in to ask if he feels sorry for him.

He needs to stop with the immature and unhelpful media remarks and just focus on the track because blaming the car is fooling no one.

[Ben1980]

Piastri undermined himself, as did both drivers on Saturday. Oscar was then given every chance to fight and couldn't get past.

Last year in Japan Oscar was barely into his second year and now he has a new contract and I suspect that the Papaya rules were updated to reflect that one driver wouldn't be advantaged unless there was a need in the constructors. There was last year, but this year we are already getting clear.

In any case I wouldn't have released Piastri, I've no issue with this decision.

I understand your point and it's fair but, in that case, Mclaren can never ask Piastri to move over like last year otherwise it would just prove my point. I feel they are needlessly trapping themselves. Stella said the team comes first but they can no longer implement that without looking like hypocrites. The team did not come first in Japan for some reason... They now have to hold themselves to the fact that if Piastri cannot be granted a team order in his favor in this kind of situation, then Norris can never benefit either. This ultimately just hurts the team result.

Why should Piastri get a team order in this situation though?

He qualified behind Norris, he was free to race him, and couldn't overtake him. He even got a preferential pit stop it seems.

Piastri had his chances, he just performed slightly worse than Norris on Saturday so had to live with the consequences.

They weren't on different strategies, the track condition wasn't tricky, it made no sense to swap.

In Australia, when he was racing and could challenge he ran wide. He didn't overtake not because of team orders in Aus but because he made an error.

[Ben1980]

If you are talking about "Russel undercut" that is just plain wrong. Piastri was not under threat.

How far behind was Russell when Piastri pitted?

Piastri emerged 4 seconds (and 3 cars) ahead of Russell. Russell couldn't slice through them. There was no real threat.

But the risk would have increased for one more lap, especially as Oscar was struggling with tyres, he lost half a second to Lando the lap before he stopped.

I'm sure it probably would have still been fine, but the risk increased with every extra lap.

[Emag]

It started with the team order against Oscar at his home race (also the 1st GP of the year), and the baloney excuse that the fans ate up. Then it continued with refusing to swap the cars here in Japan simply because Norris would have lost out if Oscar passed Max when Norris couldn't. To highlight the hypocrisy, it was at this very race last year in Japan that Lando Norris groveled for team orders to be let past Oscar to secure the better team result. Mclaren granted him that team order. Now 12 months later at the same circuit, they refuse Oscar the same thing? Didn't Andrea Stella say the team would come first? That only seems to be relevant when it can be used to protect Norris and undermine Oscar...

This entire thing is some bullsh*t.

I can't believe people are still going on about Australia even though it was clarified on multiple sources that the radio comms on live TV are delayed. If you check the actual radio comms, Oscar was told immediately after they passed Liam, that they were free to race. He then dipped a tire on the gravel out of T6 and lost time all on his own. For some reason, that's when FOM decided it was the best moment to air the radio message. How the hell are people blaming McLaren for telling their drivers to chill out while they're passing backmarkers on a wet Australia is beyond me. A double DNF would have been a better look on them no doubt ...

As for the rest.
If you assume Oscar passes Max after the swap, then Lando only loses out to Oscar. He still remains in the lead of WDC in that scenario but with a bigger margin to Max. If McLaren believed Oscar could do it, they would have taken that deal, so your reasoning for them denying the swap makes no sense.

Oscar was nowhere all weekend last year in Japan. Perhaps you're thinking of 2023, where he outqualified Lando, but had no pace in the race because he couldn't manage the tires. Anyway, in 2023 Lando already got track position at the start. The only reason Oscar got ahead again, was because he had his first pit stop really early because he killed his tires. Before getting to him, Lando was gaining 0.7-1s per lap. It was just a waste of time to not let him through. What you bring up as a counter-argument, is a completely different scenario.

Some people just like to berate, no matter the outcome. If you want to berate, berate them for the stupid strategy call with Lando, pitting him on the same lap as Max. But for not doing the swap? That's ridiculous honestly. Tired of seeing it everywhere. The same people who are proclaiming about the swap, are the same people who cried "let them race" before. Well, they were free to race and Oscar did not have the pace to overtake Lando. What makes you think he would have overtaken Max? Had Lando agreed to the swap, I am absolutely certain people would jump on the online bandwagon to call him out for his weak mentality and lack of desire to win. No matter the outcome, people always find something to hate.

[FittingMechanics]

But the risk would have increased for one more lap, especially as Oscar was struggling with tyres, he lost half a second to Lando the lap before he stopped.

I'm sure it probably would have still been fine, but the risk increased with every extra lap.

Risk did increase but it was manageable. Russell didn't find a gap and he had 3 decent cars in front of him. Gap before pitting was about 4 seconds so even if Russell did great laps, Oscar probably had 2-3 laps before it's a threat. Btw, McLaren could have even double stacked. The gap between the cars was about 2 seconds so a double stack would work, it would only make Piastris stop slightly slower.

We have to be honest and say that this was a mistake. Either go with Norris first or go long/opposite of VER with Norris. What they did was a bad call but probably the most risk free to keep a double podium.

[FittingMechanics]

Honestly this whole swap story is completely overblown. It is very unlikely Piastri would be able to overtake Verstappen as Max had good pace and probably did just enough to keep Norris out of DRS.

Doing constant swaps to give a slightly better chance of victory seems completely unnecessary. It just invites controversy and problems. Hopefully they will fight for the championship so let them race. Swaps should be done when there is a big difference in tire life or something similar.

[Emag]

Anyway, leaving the pointless back & forth discussions with make pretend scenarios, Lando hasn't really been up to par this season so far. Australia was decent, he did what he had to do, but China was really bad. All over the place with the car. Couldn't put a good lap in for the sprint quali, made a fool out of himself on the sprint race. Then again, in qualifying he practically had zero improvement from Q2 to Q3. The race was better and unfortunate he had the brake issues, but 1 good session doesn't outdo 3 other bad ones.

And here in Japan, he really didn't feel like the Lando we have seen the last couple of years here. I don't know what gripes he has with the car, but he needs to sort it out soon if he wants his shot at the title to be realistic. Oscar probably had a tenth or two on him.

Oscar seems to be similar to last year though, he drives like a "madman" in the good sense of the word. Really fast, but he kills the tires. It was evident on the medium stint, he just fell like a brick at the end there because he couldn't manage. The hards had practically zero deg so he could push the entire time. Going to a normal race, with normal temps now, we will see if he has improved over last year or not. Speed is important, but with these tires, it's useless if you can't manage it over a stint.

[Farnborough]

Piastri undermined himself, as did both drivers on Saturday. Oscar was then given every chance to fight and couldn't get past.

Last year in Japan Oscar was barely into his second year and now he has a new contract and I suspect that the Papaya rules were updated to reflect that one driver wouldn't be advantaged unless there was a need in the constructors. There was last year, but this year we are already getting clear.

In any case I wouldn't have released Piastri, I've no issue with this decision.

I understand your point and it's fair but, in that case, Mclaren can never ask Piastri to move over like last year otherwise it would just prove my point. I feel they are needlessly trapping themselves. Stella said the team comes first but they can no longer implement that without looking like hypocrites. The team did not come first in Japan for some reason... They now have to hold themselves to the fact that if Piastri cannot be granted a team order in his favor in this kind of situation, then Norris can never benefit either. This ultimately just hurts the team result.

I don't think they will now, and apparently his new contract may say something about when he can be expected to move, but this may well be conjecture. His new contract elevates him anyway to the same or similar level to Lando and I suspect we'll see Stella talking later in the season about the difficulties of handling two number ones.

The only issue I had with the handling of the drivers was with the pit strategy, which felt more like they were trying not to advantage one driver or another rather than going for the win.

But I get your opinion and time will tell how it pans out. Ultimately the drivers have no right to blame anyone but themselves. The car can clearly be driven fast at every corner , it's the drivers that have issues, not the car. It's peaky when driven a way it doesn't like, it seems, but that's not saying that it isn't consistent in how it needs to be driven because whilst it is peaky in the hairpin for Lando, it isn't for Oscar. And where Lando was good in T2, Oscar not so much.

If Lando says any more about the car being tricky, they should get Daniel Ricciardo in to ask if he feels sorry for him.

He needs to stop with the immature and unhelpful media remarks and just focus on the track because blaming the car is fooling no one.

Reasonable synopsis in combined views I feel.
A question though, do any of you feel that OP essentially wasted his tyres in close contact with LN during first stint, and tucked up behind him ?
It looks like he was trying to force the pace or internal team decision (and why not in reality) but was that clumsy and do you think he would have had more "productive" application by keeping back a little to conserve, he knowing when McL stop was likely, to then close in those laps just prior, then clean air for perhaps 3 balls out to see what he could get.

It just looked like he capped his own track and tyre position to give no option as even a possibility around pit window.

In other words, was he focused on LN and not on MV to his potential detriment ?

[mwillems]

It's possible that his strength and weakness is that he focusses on the next challenge right in front of him.

Was it the wrong thing to do in this situation? Possibly not, but it's hard to say. He knows that to earn the right to make his own calls he need to be in front of Lando. He also knows the team aren't going to put him in front of Lando. Lando maintained a 2 second gap to Max and was able to then slightly close the gap, lap by lap, as Max' tyres started to go off. Oscar was pushing Lando hard but couldn't do anything on the Meds. And being a very flowing track it's also hard to follow closely so the dirty air would have been hurting the mediums. But what were his options? Sit back and hope the team will send him long? It was never going to happen I don't think and I imagine that the team had already told him what the strategy would be and he drove accordingly. Maybe he drove to try and push an undercut..?

You'd need to know if Lando was leaving the gap to Max intentionally and if he knew that Oscar couldn't get close enough or whether that was all the pace Lando had. If you look at the laptimes, you feel like he was pushing as much as he felt he could without hurting the tyres too much, because Lando's stop was in part going to be based on how long others went. if he did have more pace in the tank then the real place to direct your questions is once more at the pit strategy. I strongly believe that he had more time and that Lando would have gained more time by staying out another lap. But the fact that on Landos push lap before the pit, that he only took 4 tenths away from Max may counter that.

[Farnborough]

It's possible that his strength and weakness is that he focusses on the next challenge right in front of him.

Was it the wrong thing to do in this situation? Possibly not, but it's hard to say. He knows that to earn the right to make his own calls he need to be in front of Lando. Lando maintained a 2 second gap to Max and was able to then slightly close the gap, lap by lap, as Max' tyres started to go off. Oscar was pushing Lando hard but couldn't do anything on the Meds. And being a very flowing track it's also hard to follow closely so the dirty air would have been hurting the mediums. But what were his options? Sit back and hope the team will send him long? It was never going to happen I don't think and I imagine that the team had already told him what the strategy would be and he drove accordingly.

You'd need to know if Lando was leaving the gap to Max intentionally and if he knew that Oscar couldn't get close enough or whether that was all the pace Lando had. If you look at the laptimes, you feel like he was pushing as much as he felt he could without hurting the tyres too much, because Lando's stop was in part going to be based on how long others went. if he did have more pace in the tank then the real place to direct your questions is once more at the pit strategy. I strongly believe that he had more time and that Lando would have gained more time by staying out another lap.

For me, thats the core of their dilemma.

They clearly state that advantage can be had by having two car in the fight (rightly to take advantage with second RB back away) but then fail to act upon it. MV doesn't need more than a sniff of that win or the WDC to get both hands on it. It seems niave to me that McL team are tying their own hands in these decisions, effectively working for the opposition.

Some drivers would be emphatic if they wanted to go long, and stuff the impact. They'll remember these races at year end IF they didn't fulfill both championship goals.

[basti313]

A question though, do any of you feel that OP essentially wasted his tyres in close contact with LN during first stint, and tucked up behind him ?

.......

In other words, was he focused on LN and not on MV to his potential detriment ?

No, there are two clear reasons why not and you are missing the details in laptimes:
- He was not pushing all the time. He had on and off laps. Similar to Lando and Max, everyone could from time to time post a 0.4sec faster lap which closed and opened the gaps. Besides this the laptimes on average were very similar. At the stop the McLarens could use the strength of the Merc engine, that can simply do a bit more time than the Honda in the higher power mode, thus cut down another 0.4sec.
- The thermal wear was not there. The tires did not really suffer from being close. It was a nearly flat out race, there was also not much gain on dropping back as one tediously needs to close the gap again.

No, the damage was still the predefined strategy. Due to the weak undercut they decided, that the lead car pits second and were sticking to this. The clear strategy to win or at least to put pressure on Max was the point when they faked the stop with Lando. They should have brought him in with 10sec clear behind.

And...Piastri not only bottled his Q3 lap, but also the outlap after the stop. This was his chance, with a pace similar to Russel (1sec faster!) it would have been close with Lando taking care of the lawn.