2021 Saudi Arabian Grand Prix - Jeddah, Dec 03 - 05

[proteus]

Being in a car with a pace deficit is zero excuse for behaving like that. You didn't see Ocon doing that to Bottas, or indeed anyone doing it to Verstappen in the races he had to make places through the field. You barely ever see anyone do what Verstappen did in Brazil or multiple times in SA. You cannot justify that behaviour by saying he was in a slower car or he was desperate.

Depends how soft the spectators and drivers became. Years back this might end up with a fist fight and possible mutual respect after that or atleast avoidance. But in this tender times where even an improper sneeze might be ofensive, this wont happen and thats why them both are reckless as they are. Even Lewis is not spotless in this, no matter how much are you trying to find excuses for him. And yes, Max acts out of desperation and i can understand that, since my blood is also red and i can feel his pain. Was Senna any different? Lots of incident happened troughout his whole career when he pushed to the last limit - even Brundle stated that it often went to a point where one of the drivers would not be able to get trough.

I’m not making any excuses for Hamilton. Not that he needs any made for him from yesterday anyway.

I fail to see how the fact you don’t seem to like the state of the world/F1 today in any way qualifies how Verstappen chose to behave yesterday. It’s ok to drive like that if you have a punch up afterwards?!

Lewis simply lacks character and thats why this is happening. He should have gone to Max face to face and set him straight. Something what strongly charactered drivers did in the past (Schumacher, Piquet, Senna, Hunt and many others) and not to hide behind Wolf and being afraid to even look at the direction of Max. Vettel and Rosberg were much easier to crack than Max aparently.

[Roo]

Lewis simply lacks character and thats why this is happening. He should have gone to Max face to face and set him straight. Something what strongly charactered drivers did in the past (Schumacher, Piquet, Senna, Hunt and many others) and not to hide behind Wolf and being afraid to even look at the direction of Max. Vettel and Rosberg were much easier to crack than Max aparently.

Right; there was me thinking there are rules and a hierachy that govern the sport and institutions. It's 2021 not the 1970s

[proteus]

Lewis simply lacks character and thats why this is happening. He should have gone to Max face to face and set him straight. Something what strongly charactered drivers did in the past (Schumacher, Piquet, Senna, Hunt and many others) and not to hide behind Wolf and being afraid to even look at the direction of Max. Vettel and Rosberg were much easier to crack than Max aparently.

Right; there was me thinking there are rules and a hierachy that govern the sport and institutions. It's 2021 not the 1970s

Yes, it is the FUTURE.

[dans79]

Lewis simply lacks character and thats why this is happening. He should have gone to Max face to face and set him straight. Something what strongly charactered drivers did in the past (Schumacher, Piquet, Senna, Hunt and many others) and not to hide behind Wolf and being afraid to even look at the direction of Max. Vettel and Rosberg were much easier to crack than Max aparently.

Right; there was me thinking there are rules and a hierachy that govern the sport and institutions. It's 2021 not the 1970s

Not to mention the sporting regs have numerous rules that you would get penalized for doing such a thing for now!

https://www.fia.com/sites/default/files ... 2021_0.pdf

12.2.1.c Any fraudulent conduct or any act prejudicial to
the interests of any Competition or to the interests of
motor sport generally.

12.2.1.f Any words, deeds or writings that have caused
moral injury or loss to the FIA, its bodies, its members or its
executive officers, and more generally on the interest of
motor sport and on the values defended by the FIA

12.2.1.k Any Misconduct towards:
• licence-holders,
• officials,
• officers or member of the staff of the FIA,
• members of the staff of the Organiser or promoter,
• members of the staff of the Competitors,
• doping control officials or any other person
involved in a doping control

12.2.1.m Any public incitement to violence or hatred

[Jolle]

Let's see if this is the post that will bring us to the 100 pages!
Anyway, I hope that people take off their LH or MV glasses and for onc6 see clearly what the FIA decision say.
Both drivers at fault, MV predominantly thus he got a penalty.
Simple isn't it?

Why people try to understand what they were doing? None of them will openly admit what they did.
Now, let's try to enjoy the last race of this ERA. Next year we will have new cars.

Both drivers at fault?
When is a driver at fault when he’s behind another driver, doesn’t move, increasing or decreasing his speed and the driver in front slams on the brakes?
When you’re close to Verstappen you have to make a constant risk assessment. Normally when you overtake him, he runs you off the track. When you are in front of him, he runs you off track… see the behaviour here? Now you can’t even drive behind the guy without being safe.

[Mtom]

To me it's pretty obvious Max was weaving

[wickedz50]

This is all about the multiple VSC we had previous to this incident unless LH was trying to avoid overtaking before the DRS detection zone.
From my POV this is both sides losing their calm resulting in these kind of situations. Reminds me of 2007 the way FA and LH was fighting and we all know what happened in the end someone else became a champion.
Here in 2021 both LH and MV should consider themselves lucky that they do not have a 3rd challenger.

[proteus]

Lewis simply lacks character and thats why this is happening. He should have gone to Max face to face and set him straight. Something what strongly charactered drivers did in the past (Schumacher, Piquet, Senna, Hunt and many others) and not to hide behind Wolf and being afraid to even look at the direction of Max. Vettel and Rosberg were much easier to crack than Max aparently.

Schumacher cheated, Piquet was a nasty little bully who even insulted his team mate's wife to try to get an advantage, Senna cheated by deliberately crashing out Prost in 1990, Hunt used to throw up before races because he was so nervous.

These weren't prime examples of pure manhood or whatever you think they were.

Lewis lied in Australia 09, few years later said that FIA is on to him because of the color of his skin and etc....so what is your point exactly and who was talking about manhood? I said character, guts and ability to stand up for himself.

By far i am not trying to rant about him, but honestly i see him too weak in terms of personal interactions. If he was treated wrong on track he should go to Max and say it...and not to speak about it in third person, implying about someone else wrong doing.

[Andres125sx]

Yes I know. We could see him release the throttle, shift down, slow down, and wait for Hamilton to pass. Which Hamilton did not. At that point, it's not outrageous to think "maybe slowing down further will get the message across". And as said, it was poor judgement to do so given the position Lewis was at, but then again, the position that Lewis was at was poor judgement given the fact of how much Max was already slowing down. Miscommunication and poor judgement, not intent.

If you really think this, sorry to say this but you´re quite naive.

Max perfectly know Lewis was into his gearbox, hitting the brakes at that point is intentional, like it or not

I strongly question Lewis' decision to be there in the first place. If a car is decelerating on the straight, why stay behind it - for all he knew it could be max had a problem, and then you just want to get past. And if he was suspecting Max would drive into him while overtaking, well, that would be an instant championship DSQ so it doesn't seem a really credible thought. And then still, if you do not want to pass, why stay behind the other car exactly? Why not move a bit to the side?

I suspect Max either expected Lewis would be moving left and misjudged that, or again, in frustration failed to consider the track position accordingly.

That´s a different matter, but you can´t seriously say maybe Max brake test was not intentional, because it obviously was. He knew Hamilton was on his gearbox and applied brakes at a point cars usually do not brake. That is the deffinition of a brake test

Lewis staying behind is another question, but whatever the answer is, that is allowed, while brake testing is not

[WaikeCU]

Watching that GP and the antics on track, it was as if I was looking at a junior category inexperienced driver doing everything to just to be ahead of a rival, whether that's within or far beyond what the rulebook says.

Just as if one has skipped a lot of race classes and jumped from one end of the junior categories into F1.


Oh wait...

[El Scorchio]

Depends how soft the spectators and drivers became. Years back this might end up with a fist fight and possible mutual respect after that or atleast avoidance. But in this tender times where even an improper sneeze might be ofensive, this wont happen and thats why them both are reckless as they are. Even Lewis is not spotless in this, no matter how much are you trying to find excuses for him. And yes, Max acts out of desperation and i can understand that, since my blood is also red and i can feel his pain. Was Senna any different? Lots of incident happened troughout his whole career when he pushed to the last limit - even Brundle stated that it often went to a point where one of the drivers would not be able to get trough.

I’m not making any excuses for Hamilton. Not that he needs any made for him from yesterday anyway.

I fail to see how the fact you don’t seem to like the state of the world/F1 today in any way qualifies how Verstappen chose to behave yesterday. It’s ok to drive like that if you have a punch up afterwards?!

Lewis simply lacks character and thats why this is happening. He should have gone to Max face to face and set him straight. Something what strongly charactered drivers did in the past (Schumacher, Piquet, Senna, Hunt and many others) and not to hide behind Wolf and being afraid to even look at the direction of Max. Vettel and Rosberg were much easier to crack than Max aparently.

How do you know he didn’t? There were a good few minutes where they were all off camera before the podium.

TBH even if he didn’t, then the smart thing psychologically is to come across like you’re not bothered and it didn’t matter. That’s far more mentally strong than running up to someone and pushing them off a weighbridge, for example. Verstappen is the one ranting and raving and Hamilton looks cool as a cucumber.

None of this is happening because Hamilton ‘lacks character’. It’s happening because Verstappen refuses to drive his car in the correct/sporting manner every time Hamilton is nearby. It’s hilarious you’re trying to insinuate Verstappen’s poor driving is Hamilton’s fault.

[Just_a_fan]

Lewis simply lacks character and thats why this is happening. He should have gone to Max face to face and set him straight. Something what strongly charactered drivers did in the past (Schumacher, Piquet, Senna, Hunt and many others) and not to hide behind Wolf and being afraid to even look at the direction of Max. Vettel and Rosberg were much easier to crack than Max aparently.

Schumacher cheated, Piquet was a nasty little bully who even insulted his team mate's wife to try to get an advantage, Senna cheated by deliberately crashing out Prost in 1990, Hunt used to throw up before races because he was so nervous.

These weren't prime examples of pure manhood or whatever you think they were.

Lewis lied in Australia 09, few years later said that FIA is on to him because of the color of his skin and etc....so what is your point exactly and who was talking about manhood? I said character, guts and ability to stand up for himself.

By far i am not trying to rant about him, but honestly i see him too weak in terms of personal interactions. If he was treated wrong on track he should go to Max and say it...and not to speak about it in third person, implying about someone else wrong doing.

This is F1, not WWE. Talking smack downs etc., is not what is done.

Say Lewis goes to Max and says "don't be so aggressive on track, you'll just cause accidents" and Max tells him to "f off" etc. Then what? Go out back and have a bit of a punch up? That worked well for Senna, didn't it? 2 race ban. Yeah, that's how you win championships - by sitting in the grandstand watching everyone else race.

If Lewis tells Max face-to-face to stop being so silly on track, Max is going to smirk at him and then walk off. Max will then just do it on track again anyway. In fact, he'll probably do it more because he thinks he's gotten under Lewis's skin.

So, no, going and doing it face-to-face isn't going to happen because that's not how grown up people behave.

It's not the job of the drivers to police driver behaviour on track. It's the job of the FIA and their appointed stewards. Unfortunately, there is a move to "let them race" which has resulted in Max doing ridiculous moves on track with no fear of reprisals. And Sunday's race and the silliness that ensued is a direct result of that. Had Max been treated the same as other drivers - no weaving in the braking zone, etc., - then he'd be a better driver in wheel-to-wheel racing. But he isn't - he's just a dive bomber that has been allowed to get away with it.

[radosav]

This is all about the multiple VSC we had previous to this incident unless LH was trying to avoid overtaking before the DRS detection zone.
From my POV this is both sides losing their calm resulting in these kind of situations. Reminds me of 2007 the way FA and LH was fighting and we all know what happened in the end someone else became a champion.
Here in 2021 both LH and MV should consider themselves lucky that they do not have a 3rd challenger.

exactly

[Jambier]

They can still do something crazy in last race and be DSQ from championship, Bottas wins the title [-o<

[El Scorchio]

This is all about the multiple VSC we had previous to this incident unless LH was trying to avoid overtaking before the DRS detection zone.
From my POV this is both sides losing their calm resulting in these kind of situations. Reminds me of 2007 the way FA and LH was fighting and we all know what happened in the end someone else became a champion.
Here in 2021 both LH and MV should consider themselves lucky that they do not have a 3rd challenger.

They can still do something crazy in last race and be DSQ from championship, Bottas wins the title [-o<

I can only see one of them doing anything crazy. The other one needs to actually finish the race, so he's going to be trying to avoid all that.