Scuderia Ferrari - Disgracing Tifosi Worldwide

[bhall]

A team can only go as far as its tools will allow. For whatever reason, Ferrari's design tools are in a pretty sad state. I imagine that's because they were very successful for a very long time without them. But, times have changed, and the team can no longer rely on Fiorano to be the venue for the lion's share of their development work. It's now CFD or bust.

The season started as a tire lottery, and Ferrari used their new Director of Tire Development, Hirohide Hamashima - former director of Bridgestone Motorsport Tire Development - to great effect, as they were the first team to gain a working understanding of this season's tire's characteristics. Combined with strong strategies, flawless execution, and excellent reliability, the team was able to capitalize on the mistakes and vulnerabilities of other teams to eek out a decent lead in the Driver's Championship for themselves. However, as the season settled into a development race rather than a tire sweepstakes, the Scuderia has fallen back to a level that befits its design strength, which is to say, the team is now where it probably should be: way behind Red Bull and somewhat behind McLaren.

Two things to keep in mind: First, F1's new regulatory landscape was specifically designed to break the stranglehold Ferrari held on the World Championships in the early 2000s. "Cost cutting" crippled the team through the testing ban and the engine freeze, Ferrari's two biggest weapons. The engine freeze has been particularly tough, because the Type 056 V8 is fuel-thirsty and it runs hot. In an environment where efficiency and aerodynamic packaging have become paramount, those are two awful problems to be stuck with.

Second, the most successful team over the last three years owes much of its success to openly skirting the Resource Restriction Agreement. Christian Horner, Red Bull's Team Principal, recently asserted his team's view that Red Bull Technology is but a supplier to Red Bull Racing. As such, Red Bull Technology is not subject to the terms of the RRA. That's a hell of an advantage, especially when you consider that one Adrian Newey is on Red Bull Technology's payroll.

Of course, all Ferrari fans want more out of a season than we've seen this year. But, it could have been a whole lot worse. Remember Melbourne?

[amouzouris]

@cylinder

You are getting out of line, you are calling people losers (Ferrari personel, Jersey Tom) without knowing what they do and how hard they are working... Calling someone like Jersey Tom a loser does not only offend him, but offends me as well because you have no respect for people in this forum...Let me tell you something..JT is 10x more clever than you are...

You are using the word fan in inverted comas for other people when you should be using that expression for yourself...

I am surprised no one has given you a -1 yet...if i could i would.. I will personally ask the mods to first of all change the name of this topic because it is offending me as a ferrari fan, and probably many other...i will also ask for your posts to be edited and remove your offends

EDIT: bhalgk I completely agree with you mate

[Cylinder]

@cylinder

You are getting out of line, you are calling people losers (Ferrari personel, Jersey Tom) without knowing what they do and how hard they are working... Calling someone like Jersey Tom a loser does not only offend him, but offends me as well because you have no respect for people in this forum...Let me tell you something..JT is 10x more clever than you are...

You are using the word fan in inverted comas for other people when you should be using that expression for yourself...

I am surprised no one has given you a -1 yet...if i could i would.. I will personally ask the mods to first of all change the name of this topic because it is offending me as a ferrari fan, and probably many other...i will also ask for your posts to be edited and remove your offends

I thought this place was for grown men to argue and make a point, personally, Im not into snitching on other posters or running off to tell teacher...If I have something to say, I will say it.

If any of you were the team boss of Ferrari and Luca Di Montezemolo walked in, not one of you would have the guts to say "we are doing pretty well"........and the reason for that is, you know it's a stupid comment to make and you know your job would be on the line for saying such stupid things.

When Red Bull werent as fast as Mclaren, I dont remember Horner saying "we are doing pretty well", I also dont see Red Bull going on their twitter page prior to qualifying and throwing the towel in either.

Ferrari have gone soft, that is not the only reason they are failing, but the mentality has changed.

[amouzouris]

I thought this place was for grown men to argue and make a point, personally, Im not into snitching on other posters or running off to tell teacher...If I have something to say, I will say it.

If any of you were the team boss of Ferrari and Luca Di Montezemolo walked in, not one of you would have the guts to say "we are doing pretty well"........and the reason for that is, you know it's a stupid comment to make and you know your job would be on the line for saying such stupid things.

When Red Bull werent as fast as Mclaren, I dont remember Horner saying "we are doing pretty well", I also dont see Red Bull going on their twitter page prior to qualifying and throwing the towel in either.

Ferrari have gone soft, that is not the only reason they are failing, but the mentality has changed.

The reason i am telling 'the teacher' is because you offended me and other people..not because you said what you believe,
I disagree with everything you said and find your posts not well thought out because you are not considering all of the facts before you post....

[Cylinder]

Second, the most successful team over the last three years owes much of its success to openly skirting the Resource Restriction Agreement. Christian Horner, Red Bull's Team Principal, recently asserted his team's view that Red Bull Technology is but a supplier to Red Bull Racing. As such, Red Bull Technology is not subject to the terms of the RRA. That's a hell of an advantage, especially when you consider that one Adrian Newey is on Red Bull Technology's payroll.

This does nothing but cement exactly what I have been saying in this thread from the get go.

In Red Bull racing, there is no "We are doing pretty well" "As least we arent as bad as last season"

They are utterly relentless and they will expose and use any loophole they can, that's how you win titles in this era of F1.

If you cannot understand or emulate that mentality I dont like a teams chances of winning anything.

There is a very bad culture amongst some of these ferrari fans, who basically like to stick their head in the sand and don't want to criticize ferrari.because somehow this makes them a ''true fan''.

The hilarious thing is, you can tell not one of them watches italian sport, because in football, the biggest and most loyal fans are the ultras....and they go crazy if one of the clubs is being badly managed.

By the way, I know about 3 Ferrari fans in here are getting the tissues out, but on Twitter, @insideferrari got absolutely destroyed today by a ton of people for yet another disappointing day, including the tyre debacle in Q2 where is seems yet again....there was no need to waste a set of soft tyres when Fern was safe, but feel free to correct me if you want.

[bhall]

You won't find too many fans who've been more critical of the team than I have. Check out the F2012 thread, specifically posts made during winter testing. I called the F2012 "DOA" and demanded Domenicali's head on a platter.

But, what good does it do to be an asshole about it?

[amouzouris]

I am not afraid to criticize ferrari! I do criticize them for the exact reasons bhalgk said...focusing only on track testing and letting their tools get outdated...in the last few years they have been improving their cfd department and they are now reacting to their wind tunnel problems, it has to be said too late!

And let me tell you something...a change of major personnel at this stage would get ferrari a step backwards instead of forwards...

Domenicaly is not at the same level as Todt was, but on the other hand at the moment it would be a gamble to replace him because of the same as one of the reasons Massa was not replaced...if you replace someone...you have to replace him with someone who has proven to be better! (ofc we know the other reason massa wasn't replaced)

[Jersey Tom]

I thought this place was for grown men to argue and make a point

Then perhaps you could set the example and make an intelligent and/or technical point here rather than an emotional rant.

[Cylinder]

You won't find too many fans who've been more critical of the team than I have. Check out the F2012 thread, specifically posts made during winter testing. I called the F2012 "DOA" and demanded Domenicali's head on a platter.

But, what good does it do to be an asshole about it?

Because, unfortunately.....sometimes, you need an asshole to tell it how it is.

Let's make this really simple.

Not one person in this thread would turn around to Luca Di Montezemolo and say what we have done in the last few years is acceptable.....not one. So that's the end of that discussion.

I find it sickening the amount of pressure we are putting on a single driver because yet again for another year, we haven't got the car right, now in terms of technical discussions, i know there have been problems with the wind tunnels making it difficult to assess if and how much these updates can work and numerous other technical issues.....i understand that, thats a part of F1, but what I am not happy about is the attitude of then shifting all the pressure onto Alonso and saying "Look Nando, its still not good enough, but hey, drive it 100% on the limit and get it into P3 for us will ya".

I remember when Alonso signed for us, I remember Luca talking about the agreement he had with us, the agreement was basically, you give you best for us, and we will deliver you our best"

But only one half of the bargin has been met, we have let this guy down, and thats the truth, he's dragged that car into a false position in the WDC and we have had since Malaysia to deliver him with the tools to the do the job and from what I can see, we arent doing it and i dont think its good enough, it's a massive waste of a top driver and it's really sad how we utterly rely on him so much to save our skin.

People need to start taking responsiblity

In my view.

[mzivtins]

Being a strong mclaren fan i have to say, Ferrari have done really really well... You could argue that they have had one of the hardest development routes, with the most criticism at their cars performance... yet when their car was at its worst they turn around and win races... that to me is a team as good as Fernando is a driver!

Cast you mind back Malaysia 2012... When Ferrari won, most of the team were in tears... they knew what that had done that day was a miracle with that dog of a car. You can't fault that kind of passion, and then to immediately push the win aside, even before podium celebrations, and say... this is good, but not good enough, is pure realisation and direction.

I wish that mclaren acted as a team as strong as ferrari have been this season... if they had then mclaren would be in the top two spots of the the WDC standings.

Any F1 fan watching that race at malaysia would be lying if they said that not even for a split second, they became a Ferrari fan.

And the message on twitter was more a consoling message to the fans... i wish we could have that from other teams, instead you are left rolling in anger why mistakes are being made and talked about like they aren't serious. Why can't mclaren stand up and say WE F##KED IT FOR BOTH OF OUR DRIVERS COMPLETELY.

2012, i like how Ferrari works.

Cylinder, your opinion seems to be based on the past 2 races rather than the teams efforts this season, when the tough was VERY tough for them, they didn't fall around like angry kids as Red Bull did at the start of the season. When things went bad, they never acted blase about it like mclaren seem to do (at the expense of their fans) they got close together and worked harder, and better... could you at lets agree that this season, that what ferrari and their drivers have achieved is fantastic given the issues they have faced with the car?

[Cylinder]

Cylinder, your opinion seems to be based on the past 2 races rather than the teams efforts this season, when the tough was VERY tough for them, they didn't fall around like angry kids as Red Bull did at the start of the season.

Your wrong on two points. (Respectfully)

1. I have been saying this on other forums for about 2 years now, on multiple forums, nothing to do with the last two races, this has been happening for years.

2. Who cares if Red Bull acted like angry kids, those "Angry kids" got the job done right? Thats all that matters....Winning, do you see, thats all they care about and they do whatever it takes in their power to get the job done. There is no point in acting honorably and then losing anyways.....it's pointless and what you are describing is Ferrari all over in this age.....soft, weak, and compromising, something I dont believe we were back in Schumacher's heyday, infact, Im not sure he would even stand for it, but maybe i am wrong.

[bhall]

I take issue with someone saying Alonso "dragged that car into a false position in the WDC," because a car can never, ever be driven faster than it's capable of being driven. That's just physics. A car can be difficult to drive to the limit, and I think the general disparity between Alonso and Massa has demonstrated the F2012 to be a difficult car. But, it's far from the dog you'd have us believe. (And it be fair, it wasn't "DOA" as I've previously claimed.)

The team's issues seem to be relatively straightforward: the wind tunnel and CFD facilities in Maranello aren't up to par. Even an Adrian Newey-Rory Byrne-John Barnard-hybrid uber-designer couldn't tame that beast and get it to spit out a sound design. It just has to be fixed. The problem, as I understand it, is that fixing it is not exactly easy, and it can't be done mid-season. The only thing to do is wait.

Think of it this way, though: It could be so much worse. We could be Mercedes fans. Brackley would kill to have Maranello's problems.

[Cybercorreio]

Before being a Ferrari fan I am a Formula 1 Fan.

I agree with most of the comments on this subject - Scuderia Ferrari - Disgracing Tifosi Worldwide.

I just want to remark one comment of somebody saying that is not so easy to substitute Massa nor DonAmicali, because for that you need to have somebody proved as better....

I am not so sure that things have to be solved that way because I believe there are always a solution and it is part of analysis, risk management and ...creativity!

Ross Brawn was the best...nobody is saying it now, M.Schumacher was the best...nobody is saying he is now.

So just because you do not have a bullet proof better solution , it does not mean you have to keep without winning.

Everything has a time frame , and, the time frame for Ferrari win Championships and races and poles is just to long!

I do not mean that second is the first looser , but to keep going with a Team like this because with the changes things can go worst??? - I mean instead of being 2nd or 3rd you may become 5th or 6th for a couple of years ???
In the business world i live , the manager encharged SanDomenicali will be kicked out with the end of the year if no number one on the championship or constructors, and, if he stays, the next year without winning championship and constructers will claim the head not only of him but also of LukaMultiSemola.

But as we saw in politics (Berlustuti) in Italy things can be different )

I start to feel pity for Alonso.

Let"s hope for a more interesting Fomula 1.

[mzivtins]

Your wrong on two points. (Respectfully)

1. I have been saying this on other forums for about 2 years now, on multiple forums, nothing to do with the last two races, this has been happening for years.

2. Who cares if Red Bull acted like angry kids, those "Angry kids" got the job done right? Thats all that matters....Winning, do you see, thats all they care about and they do whatever it takes in their power to get the job done. There is no point in acting honorably and then losing anyways.....it's pointless and what you are describing is Ferrari all over in this age.....soft, weak, and compromising, something I dont believe we were back in Schumacher's heyday, infact, Im not sure he would even stand for it, but maybe i am wrong.

I care about the way the teams act and behave because i am a fan of F1, no just one team... i care that a team like that can appear to be so unprofessional, because each team has its own persona, and each personality can be compatible or incompatible with your own.

These leads me to personally dislike the crowd that is the red bull team, purely based on something as shallow as this, and love how Ferrari have been this season.

Being open and admitting of your shortcomings is a good trait to have for anybody, but blaming others for your mistakes is awful.

David Coulthard said that if becoming world champion means you have to be so paranoid and horrible to work with, then he would rather not become one. And i agree with that sentiment.

You can give 110%, but the second you start to throw your gentlemanly behavior out of the window you become nothing but a loser. Example, Maldonado, Qualifying Spa 2011.

At the end of the day, you talk about all the negative aspects of ferrari without offering ANY solution or alternatives. And that leads me to another quote... There are two things that require no skill. 1: Spending other people money. and 2: Dismissing ideas
I believe you fall into this with you empty rants about team performance. Maybe they could have gone with a different rear setup to help around sector 2 in Buddh? Maybe you know the answer, or maybe your arguments are just that empty?

We all know everyone wants to win, and that is important to them. But the start raging when the team isn't winning everything is just a little bit weird. I guess when perez finished 2nd in malaysia you thought "He's ---, he didn't win' Or kobyashi 3rd for suzuka... "Why are the crowd so pleased, he's third" It might not be winning, but its a damn fine achievement!

[Sombrero]

The Tifosi takes the F-1 WC too seriously. It's just racing...