Weight Distribution & Transfer

Breaking news, useful data or technical highlights or vehicles that are not meant to race. You can post commercial vehicle news or developments here.
Please post topics on racing variants in "other racing categories".
DaveW
DaveW
239
Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 12:27

Re: Weight Distribution & Transfer

Post

I process measurements taken during a rig test to compile (for each set-up) a simple linear model of a vehicle. The beauty of that is that I can then assemble carpet plots of how the Performance Index (PI) might be expected to vary with changes to vehicle parameters. The results should be taken with a pinch of salt: the vehicle itself is not linear and the PI addresses vehicle control & not necessarily lap time, although there is frequently a strong correlation between the two. Nevertheless, the results can be quite instructive. Here is an example, extracted from a rig test of an open-wheeled "aero" vehicle, with D/F set for around 100 kph.

This is a plot of PI as a function of damper "strengths". The black axis shows changes in front damper strength & the red axis shows changes in rear damper strength. The heavy green lines show current settings, and each axes covers the range from 0.5 to 1.3 times the current values. On screen, the plot is "live" & the controls panel allows the plot to be manipulated (apologies for the lack of notation - I was not up to the task of creating moving legends). The "Current PI Value" box contains the current value and, importantly, estimates of the front & rear sensitivities. Finally, the "Minimum" box contains rather more dubious estimates for "best" settings (as multiplying factors) and expected minimum PI value (also indicated by the heavy blue vertical line) - dubious because they will only be correct when the linear model accurately represents the vehicle. In the present case, the dampers had already been optimized (more or less).

The next is a similar plot, but this time showing how PI would be expected to vary with changes to spring stiffness. The results are not untypical for a "aero" vehicle, suggesting that control would benefit by reducing both springs. Interestingly, however, it suggests that the rear springs should be adjusted more (0.7*front & 0.5*rear), but that a front spring change has the greater sensitivity.

This is again similar, but this time shows how PI might change with tyre rates. The results suggest that stiffer tyres would help - again this is not untypical for an "aero" vehicle. I does suggest, however, that a change in stiffness split would be helpful (higher rear, lower front). This is consistent with the spring results (probably, actually lowering the rear spring rate would improve the tyre balance). This is the same plot, but this time shown as an overhead view - a poor man's contour plot. Arguably, it shows the most efficient was of reaching the valley would be to increase rear rate by 4%, and to reduce front rate by 4%. This could be achieved (in part, perhaps) by increasing rear tyre pressure and reducing front pressure. Increasing camber also tends to reduce tyre rate.

The point of this long introduction is to present this plot. Although it looks similar in form to others, and was produced by the same model, it is a bit different. Here, the black axis shows the effect of changing c.g. position (measured aft of the front axle) and the red axis shows the effect of changing pitch radius of gyration (pitch inertia). In numbers, it suggests that the current c.g. position (at 59.5% w/b aft of the front axle) was rather too far aft. The "optimum" would be around 56.7%. The good news is that PI does not depend much on pitch inertia, so moving ballast should work. Making that change should mean that the existing spring and tyre pressure splits would be OK.

To summarize, the vehicle weight distribution, suspension settings & tyres, all work together to achieve optimal control. Deviations can be accommodated by making changes to other settings, provided these are small.

gixxer_drew
gixxer_drew
29
Joined: 31 Jul 2010, 18:17
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Weight Distribution & Transfer

Post

Dave, thanks for your great explanation about rig testing. I read the huge thread as well that was very insightful and appreciated. Let me start by saying that in no way do I disagree with anything you presented there, I find the work you do fascinating and has recently challenged me to change the way I think about some things.

Before everyone thinks I've lost my mind... let me explain a bit more. I dont mean to put this as saying it was the ultimate or anything silly... just relating an experience that made reconsider my previous methodology for static margin. This concept initially began as a way to deal with a specific situation where a rear engine car was getting on the gas a bit earlier and consistently able to pass us out of a certain corner. A rear wing adjustment was made and in the end it helped that for when we needed it but it couldn't stick on car setup for the obvious reason ... the handling problem it created in other corners .

Recently I have been involved as sort of a hobby in developing some very high downforce cars and although in a much more primitive way than what you do, my idea was simple to reduce the spring rates but support aero load. With those extreme downforce touring cars many corner speeds were quite low (small aero load) and some tracks there would be one or maybe two corners that were quite fast, so they would see thousands of kgf in aero load. I wont give away all the details but I'm sure you already figured it out that I leveraged the huge swings in ride height. As a side note, the GT cars here in JP are quite high downforce as well, more than most open wheelers.

Back on topic, what happened in this situation was that there would be so much available grip in the higher speed corners that setup became less relevant. Depending on the speed of the corner the aero load would either let you go totally flat or it happened so fast that it reduced its relative influence on final lap time. Many tracks run high speed sweepers into hairpins. If the rest of the corners having speeds where they just get into aero load, by cranking the CoP rearward could get a bit more traction out of the lower speed corners with only a small effect on the handling balance and have a greater overall benefit to lap time grabbing a tenth on four or five corners and giving up a couple tenths in one. In the high speed corner you just had to make the car survive that one with the "bad" aero balance.

That was how I thought of it at that time... but I have since broadened the technique to more tracks not just ones with a huge spread in corner speeds like that. Now to some tracks with mostly mechanical and acceleration corners as well. Which means it is now potential to be used on quite a few tracks. The big sticking point being multiple downforce corners of various speeds (suzuka) long straights and drag (fuji).

I found it interesting why I was able to start experimenting with this was because of my hobby. In GT stuff I wouldn't dare potentially create an aero induced handling problem, but with my hobby, the cars they were just so dependent on aero and the teams were trying to learn how to cope with loads, so I had license to play with it. At one track we are talking about the car being a over one quicker with a setup change that I **think** would not have much effect on your above optimums in 95% of a lap. Given these guys were not running a rig setup and I'm sure there was a lot of room for improvement.

DaveW
DaveW
239
Joined: 14 Apr 2009, 12:27

Re: Weight Distribution & Transfer

Post

I've heard that Japanese Super GT is not a series to be taken lightly.... as the failed Maserati MC12 venture proved a few years ago. Quote: "How fast is fast? Put it this way, Maserati tried to enter its MC12 racing car a few years back into Japan's Super GT500 but it was deemed too slow (by almost a second a lap, entirely down to aerodynamics in corners)". I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion, by the way.

It will be fascinating to see what "balance of performance" regulations are required to make DTM cars competitive with the Super GT cars. I know a bit about DTM vehicles, but I've not encountered a Super GT car yet. Do they run different tyres on different tracks? (I know that Firestone supply different tyres for different types of circuit for Indy cars, and they can have quite different set-up requirements.) Do they run bars, or rely on bump rubbers to stabilize the cars? Is it common to run asymmetric set-ups?

gixxer_drew
gixxer_drew
29
Joined: 31 Jul 2010, 18:17
Location: Yokohama, Japan

Re: Weight Distribution & Transfer

Post

DaveW wrote:I've heard that Japanese Super GT is not a series to be taken lightly.... as the failed Maserati MC12 venture proved a few years ago. Quote: "How fast is fast? Put it this way, Maserati tried to enter its MC12 racing car a few years back into Japan's Super GT500 but it was deemed too slow (by almost a second a lap, entirely down to aerodynamics in corners)". I'm not sure I agree with that conclusion, by the way.

It will be fascinating to see what "balance of performance" regulations are required to make DTM cars competitive with the Super GT cars. I know a bit about DTM vehicles, but I've not encountered a Super GT car yet. Do they run different tyres on different tracks? (I know that Firestone supply different tyres for different types of circuit for Indy cars, and they can have quite different set-up requirements.) Do they run bars, or rely on bump rubbers to stabilize the cars? Is it common to run asymmetric set-ups?
Well just for comparison Fuji pole for GT500 was 1:32.9. WEC pole for LMP2 a few months back was a few tenths quicker and those are comparable power wise, min weight is 1200kg. The cars do suffer a lot of platform compromises for aero similar to LMP. Front engine, rules promote shared engines platforms with Formula Nippon.

They balance performance initially and rely on a reward weight system through the season.

By asymmetrical you mean left to right? Teams are pretty secretive about their setups. Yes on all the rest and thirds for the last few years.

Several manufacturers are known to develop tires in the series. So you can read between the lines.

Jersey Tom
Jersey Tom
166
Joined: 29 May 2006, 20:49
Location: Huntersville, NC

Re: Weight Distribution & Transfer

Post

Super GT intrigues me, but mostly because I'm in love with the GT-R. That there are several tire suppliers is pretty interesting as well.

Not that fundamentals of vehicle dynamics are inherently any different between a Super GT car vs F1 or IRL or NASCAR, but the specific approaches are interesting... as well as how intelligently the tire suppliers work with the race teams.. etc. As an aside, getting exposure in multiple series / platforms / applications is invaluable IMO. Someone who has been just doing F1 / open wheel, or just sports car, or just stock car.. could probably learn quite a bit by spending some time in a different series.
Grip is a four letter word. All opinions are my own and not those of current or previous employers.