Underrated drivers past and present

[Gerhard Berger]

Jos Verstappen. I would've liked to seen what he could've done in a good car, his stint with Benetton was to short

I think Verstappen had potential but he was not quite the same after his accident at Spa in 1996. He even complained about neck pains for years after because of that accident.

[sennafan24]

Some greatest drivers lists like the BBC's for example snub Kimi. As a WDC and a driver I consistently considered to be in the top 3 on the grid from 2003-2007, I think that is a bit harsh. Given his stellar comeback the past few years with Lotus as well.

So you could say the experts underrate Kimi, but the fans give him is due. 2008 is the only year I can think of where he was really off-boil.

I also think Massa has not been the same since his injury, so when people dismiss his performances from 2006-2009 along with his post injury performances, I always think that Massa is underrated in a way if that makes sense.

So yeah, Kimi by experts and pre injury Massa are 2 of my selections.

[langwadt]

Jos Verstappen. I would've liked to seen what he could've done in a good car, his stint with Benetton was to short

I think Verstappen had potential but he was not quite the same after his accident at Spa in 1996. He even complained about neck pains for years after because of that accident.

speaking of potential that never quite materialized, Verstappen replaced Magnussen at Steward.
After winning 14 out of 18 raced in 1994 F3 beating Sennas record, Magnussen was seen as the next big thing, but
in all his F1 career he only got 1 point

[TzeiTzei]

Keke Rosberg. Nowadays too many people just look at his statistics and fail to realise how great he really was.

[stefan_]

Keke Rosberg. Nowadays too many people just look at his statistics and fail to realise how great he really was.

And I have a video to support that:
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMHi8JUBMG8[/youtube]

Loses the back, spins around, recoveres it and takes the corner as nothing happened.

[scotty86]

Ok, i have loads of opinions on this and i'll add them when they spring to mind. But first - Michele Alboreto. Often a forgotten man due to his lack of results in later years, but early in his career he was very good, and i do not believe talent just disappears for no reason. In 1985 for example, all DNF's were mechanical from what i can see, all finishes except for one were on the podium, he generally outdrove a solid team mate in Stefan Johansson, and he was only 20 or so points off the winner Prost despite around 3 times the number of car failures... need i say more? Hopefully this video will prove my point - enjoy. Probably his best ever drive, some incredible passes here on Mansell and Prost too.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNjB2oIv9cw[/youtube]

[timbo]

Ok, i have loads of opinions on this and i'll add them when they spring to mind. But first - Michele Alboreto. Often a forgotten man due to his lack of results in later years, but early in his career he was very good, and i do not believe talent just disappears for no reason. In 1985 for example, all DNF's were mechanical from what i can see, all finishes except for one were on the podium, he generally outdrove a solid team mate in Stefan Johansson, and he was only 20 or so points off the winner Prost despite around 3 times the number of car failures... need i say more? Hopefully this video will prove my point - enjoy. Probably his best ever drive, some incredible passes here on Mansell and Prost too.

That year (and early in his career, last win for Tyrrell need I say more?) he was simply amazing, but somehow he was lost up the time Berger came.
I wonder why? Reminds me of Massa, but apparently without huge crash.

[mnmracer]

Vettel is a odd one, gets underrated by some and overrated by some in my view.

The thing with Vettel is, when you hear many forummers talk about him, do their comments sound like they talk about a driver that has twice been voted diver of the year by the team-bosses, and twice runner-up? A driver who receives praise from all around the paddock. A driver for who journalists go out of their way to remind the audience the car doesn't drive itself. Is that the voice you hear when you talk to the 'fans'?

The gap between many people's attitude towards Vettel, and the acknowledgment he receives in the paddock, is immense.

[mnmracer]

Although I'm not sure I'd say underrated, I think Alberto Ascari is often forgotten.
Jacques Villeneuve, while not one of the best champions, I think is not as bad as his reputation. He can be bloody fast, but I think he lacks that bit of extra that we want to expect from our champions.
Same goes for Damon Hill, and I'd even throw in Heinz-Harald Frentzen (though non-champion).
Mark Webber gets an immense amount of slack because Vettel is so thoroughly beating him, and people have issues acknowledging Vettel, ergo Webber suffers. He's been one of the fastest qualifiers of this millennium though, and deserves a lot more praise for that.

Bellof and Kubica are not underrated, but have not had the chance to show their worth as much. Little different, sad as it is.

[sennafan24]

Vettel is a odd one, gets underrated by some and overrated by some in my view.

The thing with Vettel is, when you hear many forummers talk about him, do their comments sound like they talk about a driver that has twice been voted diver of the year by the team-bosses, and twice runner-up? A driver who receives praise from all around the paddock. A driver for who journalists go out of their way to remind the audience the car doesn't drive itself. Is that the voice you hear when you talk to the 'fans'?

The gap between many people's attitude towards Vettel, and the acknowledgment he receives in the paddock, is immense.

I have read several journalists recently indicate they are not entirely sold, Byron Young in the Daily Mirror for example. Alonso beat him in that vote last year, despite not being WDC which takes some doing (fair is fair Vettel himself did that in 2009) Vettel winning the drivers poll in 2011 is like Mansell winning the Autosport award in 1992, there was really no other choice as his rivals did not have the car to shine.

As far as a "driver that receives praise, from all round the paddock" Well Paul Di Resta and Lewis both said they felt Alonso should have been Champion last year. I would suggest Vettel is not thought of as the supernova you are making him out to be by experts and the F1 community, yes some do go a too far with dismissing Vettel but it works both ways.

No way does Vettel warrant his name being mentioned next to Senna and Prost in the all time stakes, even though his WDC tally is comparable to theirs. For now he is comparable in my eyes to Mika.

[WhiteBlue]

Vettel attracts a lot of animosity as we have seen at the British GP for sitting in the best cars most years. People would like to see other drivers and preferably drivers of their nationality win races and championships. But IMO it is fair to say that he sits in this car for a reason. He has consistently shown that he can use the Newey designs to bring championships home even in the most unlikely situations (2010). I would not see him as under rated. It is just bigotry or bias that drives people to not recognize him for the great talent and performer that Vettel has and is.

[mnmracer]

Vettel is a odd one, gets underrated by some and overrated by some in my view.

The thing with Vettel is, when you hear many forummers talk about him, do their comments sound like they talk about a driver that has twice been voted diver of the year by the team-bosses, and twice runner-up? A driver who receives praise from all around the paddock. A driver for who journalists go out of their way to remind the audience the car doesn't drive itself. Is that the voice you hear when you talk to the 'fans'?

The gap between many people's attitude towards Vettel, and the acknowledgment he receives in the paddock, is immense.

I have read several journalists recently indicate they are not entirely sold, Byron Young in the Daily Mirror for example.
[...]

As far as a "driver that receives praise, from all round the paddock" Well Paul Di Resta and Lewis both said they felt Alonso should have been Champion last year. I would suggest Vettel is not thought of as the supernova you are making him out to be by experts and the F1 community, yes some do go a too far with dismissing Vettel but it works both ways.

There are also journalists and drivers that are not entirely sold on Hamilton or Alonso. Please do not drag this discussion down to the level of "I counter your argument with this one single example". The attitude in the paddock is miles, miles away from the general community attitude of people saying things like "I hope redbull put another bull in redbull...Then the people will see how average this guy is(vettel of course)".

No way does Vettel warrant his name being mentioned next to Senna and Prost in the all time stakes, even though his WDC tally is comparable to theirs. For now he is comparable in my eyes to Mika.

Who is saying that? But saying Vettel does not warrant his name being mentioned next to Alonso and Hamilton, as is what you read from a large group of people, is ridiculous. And in that sense, he is underrated.

[sennafan24]

There are also journalists and drivers that are not entirely sold on Hamilton or Alonso. Please do not drag this discussion down to the level of "I counter your argument with this one single example". The attitude in the paddock is miles, miles away from the general community attitude of people saying things like "I hope redbull put another bull in redbull...Then the people will see how average this guy is(vettel of course)".

Who is saying that? But saying Vettel does not warrant his name being mentioned next to Alonso and Hamilton, as is what you read from a large group of people, is ridiculous. And in that sense, he is underrated.

I rate Lewis and Alonso as being better, I refuse to shy away from that. But yes I agree he warrants a place next to them, the big 3 or 4 should always include Vettel at this stage

I think the level of dislike Vettel fans think Vettel gets is overstated, most forums I read are full of vocal Seb Suckers defending him and hailing him as a all conquering great driver. True, there are journalists not sold on Lewis or Alonso as well, but every top driver has their doubters and supporters in the paddock and on forums.

Lewis and Vettel divide opinions the most. This article on Vettel does not paint his reputation in the paddock to be as acclaimed as you make out.

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... thard.html

[mnmracer]

I think the level of dislike Vettel fans think Vettel gets is overstated, most forums I read are full of vocal Seb Suckers defending him and hailing him as a all conquering great driver.

I don't know which forums you read, but that is definitely not the majority opinion. Bar a few diehard fans, most people that are vocal about Vettel, are vocal in refuting the BS that is being said, which often comes down to outright factual lies.

True, there are journalists not sold on Lewis or Alonso as well, but every top driver has their doubters and supporters in the paddock and on forums.

So what did you hope to accomplish then by quoting one journalist of the mirror of all places?

Lewis and Vettel divide opinions the most. This article on Vettel does not paint his reputation in the paddock to be that as a supernova with nothing to prove.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/2013/ma ... -coulthard

Again you're steering away from my point. That is a comparison with Senna and Clark. I am saying he is underrated by the many nitwits who say he doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the breath of Alonso and Hamilton.

[sennafan24]

I posted the wrong article, here is the correct one to prove my point - http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sp ... thard.html

I mentioned the Mirror article to prove that not all "experts" are sold on Vettel like you implied. Go on Planet F1 if you think Vettel is not beloved by some fans

I think your argument that "nitwit" fans are biased against Vettel, whereas experts and the paddock rate him highly is too absolute. Could I have a recent example of someone saying he does not belong in the same breath as Lewis or Alonso please?