Bernie's gone mad - two-tier F1 system

[Del Boy]

The only thing Bernie truly own's is the "F1/Formula 1" moniker.

FOM?

[hpras]

He's trying to copy what worked in MotoGP. Fields were down to 15 bikes, so they came up with this idea of CRT bikes (Claiming Rule Teams). They used production based engines in bespoke chassis. Worked, they were at 26 bikes the next year, the bikes were 2-5 seconds slower than the factory teams. Top guy in that class got to stand on the podium. The promoter then moved that the factories (Honda, Yamaha, Ducati) could supply bespoke engines to the CRT teams, albeit with a standardized ECU. These teams would have the benefit of a couple more litres of fuel (24 vs 22), engine development through the season vs fixed at the beginning, and a softer rear tire would be available. So the factories did what they do best, subvert the rules. Yamaha supplied full chassis and last years engines to their teams, Ducati as a whole decided to become a CRT team (they weren't called this anymore, just running the nomenclature through), Aprilia showed up and tried to run their Superbike, and Honda supplied a boat anchor to their team and said they'd take their ball and go home if they didn't get unlimited development for the factory team. Promoter partially blinked a couple times, then got steely eyed. This year, all teams have to go to standard ECU partway through the season. Benefit for CRT teams still exist, and the factories will still win it all.

[adrianjordan]

It seems to me that the easiest answer is to allow customer cars.

Allow Red Bull, Ferrari, Mercedes, McLaren (ie: the works teams) to supply a chassis with a starter aero package to other teams for a fixed sum (let's say £5m per chassis - just picking that number out of the air, could be way off). Then those customer teams have to develop the aero package throughout the year. Then get Cosworth or someone to supply a PU at an affordable price or they can do a deal with a works engine manufacturer (I'm sure Renault would like more teams, and probably Honda too).

"But what if Mercedes supply the complete package to Force India and then we effectively have 4 Mercs beating the rest of the field?" I hear you say... So what? Then it's up to the other teams to do a better job..!!

Let the works teams spend as much as they like, but they have to make this available to customer teams at an affordable price...we then have a series that can chase technological answers, restrain costs for the smaller teams AND be more competitive for viewers...

Does Joe Average really care who built the car that driver he likes because he's from the same country drives? I'd wager no he doesn't. And for those of us who are more into the sport, there'd be the added excitement of a customer team potentially beating the works team if they out develop them (unlikely, but possible).

You could then add a rule stating that teams who have placed in the top X in the WCC for the past Y years have to produce their own chassis but can still buy the rest etc...

[tuj]

We've had customer cars in the past; nothing wrong with that imho.

[SectorOne]

Since 2008, the global TV audience for F1 has fallen from 600m to 425m in 2014.

But what about the total viewership? Not everyone watches F1 on TV.

Just TV audience isolated from everything else won´t tell you the real story of what´s going on.
You need to take into account tablets, phones, computers, illegal streaming due to no possibility of watching F1 properly.

On top of that you have free TV broadcasting going to subscription based viewing and the simple fact that younger people don´t watch TV that much anymore.

I think if F1 really made a push to reach out more to the young people instead of clinging on for dear life on TV things wouldn´t look that grim.

Edit: here´s an interesting article,
http://www.forbes.com/sites/csylt/2015/ ... to-pay-tv/

[Moxie]

F1 has long been a sport of large bank accounts and even larger egos.

It seems that the contest between cars and drivers has taken a back seat to the contest do egos, and the only people who really feel the impact are the spectators.

Bernie will not become poor if F1 ceases to exist.

The team owners wish (need, have an addiction) to display their power and wealth before the world. They pay the price. They tolerate with the built in disadvantages. They bow to Bernie's arbitrary and capricious demands...because they can't help themselves.

Bernie, for his part must beat everyone, even if it F1 takes self inflicted wounds. He must put the screws to the TV networks and race tracks, and negotiate top dollar and extreme conditions for the rights to show the F1 advertizing platform. The result is fewer eyeballs on that very same advertizing platform, as potential spectators must pay for premium cable services or for expensive tickets to the venue.

With so many less expensive entertainment options available, potentiain all viewers are choosing not to pay for premium sports channels, or pay for high ticket prices.

With declining ticket sales, It seems that the venue operators are reaching their breaking point.

All of this is just to show Bernie's pattern of behavior. The viability of F1 is not Bernie's primary concern. He must win the contest of egos.

This latest tactic is just another example of Bernie letting everyone know that HE IS BERNIE ECCELSTONE!!!

Edited to remove an inaccurate statement.

[ringo]

So the latest talk is that Bernie wants to have B-Spec cars on the grid, with the old V8 engines and such.

From TJ13:

Mr. Ecclestone, however, is becoming desperate to get rid of the big manufacturers to cling on to his job. Even eternal F1 competitor Ferrari are apparently not happy about Ecclestone’s increasingly despotic way of running the sport. E’s weapon of choice is to push the concept of a two-tier championship, a concept that Mercedes is categorically opposed to. In an early January meeting with Red Bull tsar Dietrich Mateschitz, Ecclestone is said to have developed a price model. According to f1-insider.com the top teams would hand down their old chassis to the smaller teams for a fixed sum of 10 million, with another 10 million added for V8 engines with a less complex KERS system (read: the engines F1 ditched two years ago) and another 5M for gearboxes, amounting to a technical budget of 25M for which teams like Force India can come last week in and week out.

How do you feel about such rule change? Mercedes is categorically opposed to it, and I think I am feeling the same way. I want the junior teams to be able to complete but it needs to all be the same rulebook IMHO.

Well, endurance racing has classes. I think the same thing can be done.

[Jonnycraig]

As said before, rightly or wrongly, Ecclestone needs something to market. Two Mercs cruising around 20-30 seconds up the road from everything else is unmarketable so he's now got to push through something radical, be it new engines, new regulations or a B series.

[SectorOne]

As said before, rightly or wrongly, Ecclestone needs something to market. Two Mercs cruising around 20-30 seconds up the road from everything else is unmarketable so he's now got to push through something radical, be it new engines, new regulations or a B series.

Why is that people think different regulations will stop one team from dominating the sport?

I also agree....that whole Senna vs Prost thing simply could not be marketed because the two Hondas were so far up the road...[/irony]

[Jonnycraig]

Why is that people think different regulations will stop one team from dominating the sport?

It may very well not, but Ecclestone needs something to market and so doesn't have too many options.

I also agree....that whole Senna vs Prost thing simply could not be marketed because the two Hondas were so far up the road...[/irony]

You aren't seriously trying to compare Hamilton & Rosberg to Senna & Prost?

[f1316]

In fairness, it's only been one season. If they're close again this year but rosberg wins, I think it's a very interesting story (albeit more interesting if other teams are within striking distance).

[wesley123]

As said before, rightly or wrongly, Ecclestone needs something to market. Two Mercs cruising around 20-30 seconds up the road from everything else is unmarketable so he's now got to push through something radical, be it new engines, new regulations or a B series.

It was perfectly fine when McLaren dominated in the late 80s, also Lotus dominating was perfectly okay etc. etc.

F1's history is full of dominating teams, it comes and goes.

Last year we had Mercedes dominating
2010-2013 Red Bull dominating
2009 Brawn GP
2007 Ferrari and McLaren conquered all
2000-2004 Ferrari dominated
1998-1999 McLaren dominated
1996-1997 Williams dominated
1992-1993 Williams dominated
1988-1991 McLaren dominated

etc. etc.

Most of F1's years has seen domination from one or two teams, it's perfectly normal and a part of F1's history, a history it grew big with. Why it suddenly is an issue, I don't know.

[Manoah2u]

I think it should not be forgotten that bernie has a tendency to shout some words around just for fun. He knows it'll attract media attention and that's what he wants. Bernie is a smart guy, he'll 'ball' just for the sake of making money. Getting all sorts of discussions going.

Meanwhile, there also is the tendency of Bernie's words getting 'taken out of context'. He says one thing, perhaps rediculing a (stupid) question, and then this whole theme and expression results in a complete media circus. I believe bernie is rather constemplating and expressing several ideas and options to 'improve spectacle'.

Lets not foget, people complain about F1 to the bone - so bernie responds to that. So he brings in certain 'options' or 'solutions', then more complaints arise. I don't think bernie is as 'stupid' or 'demented' as he's been presented. I do believe however it's time for him to retire either way. That said, i don't believe it should happen 'overnight' either.

Who would be the ideal 'replacement'? Good question. I think Niki Lauda would be a good character. However, his involvement with Mercedes doesn't qualify him as 'unbiased' for the short future. Even more, I think Bernie's monopoly position isn't a good thing either - like Sepp Blatter. There's a saying; "Power corrupts; absolute power corrupts absolutely"

Though i don't think these 'mega-sports' can be totally corruption-free, I believe a single ruler is the worst thing possible for any kind of sport. In any case, there should be some form of control, like f.e. the way the states prevent a president becoming an 'everlasting' factor; implement 'terms' for acting positions within F1, and have a maximum of 2 terms. Instead of 4 years, make it 5 years. Use a voting system where 50% of the votes are counted by the teams, and 50% of the votes of a different souce; i don't know whether 'fans' should qualify, but perhaps it would be a good idea to give fans more control of opinion.

[SectorOne]

It may very well not, but Ecclestone needs something to market and so doesn't have too many options.

It won´t, regulations have zero effect on domination unless you make it a 100% spec series and even that isn´t foolproof to domination.

You aren't seriously trying to compare Hamilton & Rosberg to Senna & Prost?

It was exactly the same scenario.
2 guys with a car that was head and shoulders above anything else. What made the season interesting? The duel of course.
Doesn´t matter if it´s Hamilton and Rosberg or Kimi vs Vettel or Alonso vs Button.

[Manoah2u]

it's simple......we uhmm.....
















Send word out that we hire the clown.....





* ps; just kidding offcourse