Amateur racing culture

[Tim.Wright]

20-40GBP won't even cover fuel and brakes for a day's racing...

[flynfrog]

You need to be looking at trackday packages like this http://www.trackdays.co.uk/driving-experience/

Your cost will be financing and maintaining a fleet of cars, plus hiring tracks and transporting your fleet to those tracks. Your competitors have cars that stay at the tracks so they won't have those transportation costs. You'll also need to consider the add-on costs for insurance, PR, administration, refreshments, etc.

To be honest there are lot of companies offering this which means it's a competitive market. You'll need to do something quite different if you want to beak into the market.

Richard, i ticked a 0-150 GBP range on website and there is absolutely no option. This is what i want to change. I study Master of Entrepreneurship in UK and i am aware of all costs. I dont like the structure here and want to change approach to amateur racing AT ALL. I want to establish a culture where in all local tracks will be suitable cars(identical cars) where you can come anytime and race just for 20-40 GBP all day(it is not difficult to find a low-cost strategy). I am sure that 90% people who love racing refuse this conditions that we have now and only 10% agree with it. I want to change it

how do you plan to put fuel in the cars at that price point? What about tires, brakes, insurance, track fees ect. Racing has never been cheap. Even chump car that advertises $200 cars ends up being 5-10k to go racing for the weekend. You might be able to do a few laps in some rental karts for $20

[Facts Only]

20-40GBP won't even cover fuel and brakes for a day's racing...

£20 each wouldn't even cover the transport costs and salary of the bloke to get the fuel to the circuit!

[Facts Only]

Facts Only, you do not understand my concept again. It is not good when organizations require you to have a team and a car. It should be provided. And by my logic, if cars will be provided by an organization, it will attract much more people. Go Motorsport is also not a competitor for me, cause they require a car

To be honest I think it's you that doesn't understand yoru concept, certainly not the economics of it. I don't know how much involvement you've had in UK Motorsport but here are some facts about how much a days running will cost. I'll base it on 30 at an event with 6 hours on track in something like a Arial Atom on 100 events per year (very generous)

Firstly even a small circuit like Blyton park costs £3000 a day to rent, that's £100 each already.
You'll run through at least 200l of petrol so that's another £220
You'll use up a set of brake pads so that's another £60
You'll use 1/2 of the life of a set of tyres so that's another £200
You'll need helmet hire (usually £10) plus race suit hire so we'll call that another £20
The car will need servicing after each event, conservatively £25
At £30k less the £10k it's sold for after 2 years if you spread the car cost over 200 days (weekends basically) that's another £100
Add in 10 people's salary of £20k to run it spread over 3000 sales That's another £66
And the company will want to make profit of say £500 per day so that's another £16

That's £807, which funnily is about what it Costs per day with Book A Track in a Caterham.
I' 'm not even going to try to figure in the cost of insurance or transporting the fleet of cars to the track or storing them in the week or all the other myriad business costs

You are attempting to make Motorsport cheap by making the structure rigid and adding in a middle man taking a cut, the way to actually make Motorsport cheap is to be flexible and do as much work as you can yourself. Buy your own cheap car, hunt for bargains and do local events that you can get yourself to.

[andylaurence]

Richard, i ticked a 0-150 GBP range on website and there is absolutely no option. This is what i want to change. I study Master of Entrepreneurship in UK and i am aware of all costs. I dont like the structure here and want to change approach to amateur racing AT ALL. I want to establish a culture where in all local tracks will be suitable cars(identical cars) where you can come anytime and race just for 20-40 GBP all day(it is not difficult to find a low-cost strategy). I am sure that 90% people who love racing refuse this conditions that we have now and only 10% agree with it. I want to change it

You are off by an order of magnitude. My diesel engine uses a litre of fuel an hour at idle. That's £8 for 7 hours parked in the paddock with the ignition on. You cannot achieve what you want to do, even with a 4 stroke rental kart (you'll not get an hour of seat time for £40). You're looking to provide the car and the track for less than the cost of the cheapest track day. If you want cheap motorsport, then you need to reduce the seat time. Every second on track costs money in fuel, tyres, brakes and wotnot. Not to mention track rental. You realise that you'll need £6k for a small track for the day on a weekend, right? You also need to add your marshals, rescue unit and ambulance costs. Call it £10k all-in for a small circuit. Each track has a maximum number of cars it can run at one time, so you can easily work out the cost per minute per car if you have no stoppages and the circuit use is perfectly maximised. Let's say that you can run 09:00-17:00 and split the day into 60 minute sessions. Your revenue needs to be £1250 per session, so you can run 10 cars for £125 each or 20 cars for £62.50 each. If you're looking to keep costs down, you could look at an airfield. They tend to be cheaper to rent, but you also don't have toilets or catering on-site, so you need to factor that in too.

Now you need to add your vehicle costs to this figure. To keep costs down, keep the car lightweight and it will use less fuel, less tyres and less brakes. Run on road tyres and they're cheaper as well as not pushing the brakes so much and leading to lower average speed (and fuel) bills. People are less likely to crash a slower car too. Keep the cars separate on track and you reduce panel damage, so look to competition against the clock rather than rubbing doors.

After all this, someone wanting to do cheap motorsport will probably take their standard road car and enter an AutoSolo for £33 without having to spend any money renting/purchasing a car. You say Go Motorsport requires a car, but what's the chances of someone wanting to compete in motorsport and not having a car at all? Most people don't get through life on public transport. The car you drive to work in can be the car you compete in.

[RacingEngineering]

To sum up all the information you have provided, the main problem to fight with is a huge expenses. I still insist on that organizations should provide their own cars (like in go karting). Cause people will be more likely to come and race (it shows a hidden demand). For example me. I will not buy a car even for 2000GBP and then be able to crash with no pity. And i am sure there are a lot of people thinking the same way as me. If cars will be provided, we can reveal a 10 times more demand to autosport. Economies of scale is the only strategy here cause you should reduce your cost and do in a big scale (countrywide) and i will try to find a solution to reduce the price of a car,to reduce the maintenance price of a car, increase the durability and racing quality of a car. It is tough but there must a gap.....We can combine a lot of strategies for increasing the revenue(because there should be a balance between demand and financial sustainability). For example - 20 cars per hour(25GBP each). If the track works 14 hours it gives a revenue as 7000GBP per day and 200 000 GBP per month. Consider that i own a track. If i will consider 200 000 GBP revenue per month, are you sure that it is still impossible considering tyre,braking,fuel,car maintenance,track maintenance,taxes,salaries,etc. costs?

[Facts Only]

On track any car will burn at least of 0.5l of fuel per minute so it will burn £33 of fuel in an hour so charging £25 per hour you have made a loss of £8 just in petrol. So with your 20 cars running for 14hrs (already impossible anyway with curfews) you have lost £8 x 280hrs = £2240 on day one just in fuel.

So yes I am sure it is impossible.

[RacingEngineering]

You wrote it is impposible and it shows that you are not an entrepreneur by nature.Nothing is impossible. And exactly this thought differs successful entrepreneurs from the others. I will find a solution - electric cars,diesel cars, whelen cars, flatmobile concept for racing,buggy style racing car concept, etc. Fuel consumption can not prevent me to realize my ideas. People give up on finding solutions and that is what differ entrepreneurs from the others. There had to be a problem, otherwise all companies could realize such idea before me. They gave up and it gives me an advantage as a first-mover. Being pessimistic and giving up after only few computations is not about me. Have a problem? Dont stop. Just dig deeper. I advice you to follow this thought.

[Facts Only]

You wrote it is impposible and it shows that you are not an entrepreneur by nature.Nothing is impossible.

As well as my main job I have also been 'running my own business making money from the value end of Motorsport for the last few years now, with a major project about to come to fruition. So actually I am an entrepreneur. The difference is I realise that a business plan that loses £2240 a day just fueling the cars is deeply flawed.

[RacingEngineering]

Also i have used your computations as a guide. Actually i am going to have not 20 Ariel Atoms but 20 Golfs, preferably Golf MK2 (good grip,engine,racing history). And that is why i have reduced a bit tire costs, kept the same fuel costs but increased salary. My computations:

30days/8 hours/20 cars
Fuel=144000GBP
Braking=36000GBP (you wrote for ariel but here we have golf, so cost will be even lower)
Tire=30000GBP (Golf, not Atom)
Car maintenance=15000GBP
Salary=10000GBP
Tax=20000GBP

Total costs=255000

Not bad,considering sales(53GBP per customer to reach break even) but more that 50% of costs come just from fueling.ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. If i could find a solution for that, it will gain me an advantage. Also have an advantage as a hidden demand for racing in car that you don't own and are able to crash.

[RacingEngineering]

Yes, i agree with fueling but i mean that you can not be pessimistic if you are an entrepreneur. ''Find better solutions, if it doesn't work''. I made new computations considering your guide and if i could somehow reduce costs of fueling, it can work.

[theblackangus]

Also i have used your computations as a guide. Actually i am going to have not 20 Ariel Atoms but 20 Golfs, preferably Golf MK2 (good grip,engine,racing history). And that is why i have reduced a bit tire costs, kept the same fuel costs but increased salary. My computations:

30days/8 hours/20 cars
Fuel=144000GBP
Braking=36000GBP (you wrote for ariel but here we have golf, so cost will be even lower)
Tire=30000GBP (Golf, not Atom)
Car maintenance=15000GBP
Salary=10000GBP
Tax=20000GBP

Total costs=255000

Not bad,considering sales(53GBP per customer to reach break even) but more that 50% of costs come just from fueling.ABSOLUTE NONSENSE. If i could find a solution for that, it will gain me an advantage. Also have an advantage as a hidden demand for racing in car that you don't own and are able to crash.

Im trying to do the math the reverse way, correct my math where needed.
Fuel: (Seems roughly sensible)
144000/30 = 4800GBP of fuel per day
4800/20 = 240GBP per day per car
240/8 = 30GBP per car per hour

Braking: (Seems roughly sensible)
36000/30 = 1200GBP of brakes per day
1200/20 = 60GBP of brakes per day per car

Tires: (This seems very short)
30000/30 = 1000GBP per day
1000/20 = 50GBP per day per car

Car maintenance (broken things + fluids) - (This seems short)
15000/30 = 500GBP per day
500/20 = 25GBP per day per car

Salary (This seems very short as marshals, and safety crew are needed at a minimum)
10000/30 = 334GBP per day
344/8 = 41$ per hour

Tax=20000GBP
Dunno how taxes are on that side of the pond.

Driving slots:
Per day/month = 160/4800 participants

More realistic tire estimate:
268GBP per set
30/2 = 15 sets of tires per car per month (assuming a set lasts 2 days, one set lasts me 7ish hours at 700GBP/set street tires)
15*20 = 80400GBP per month for tires

More realistic personal estimate:
(minimum wage 6.50GBP/H for everyone but medics whole at the lowest base are 7.51GBP/h)
For a 3 mile track:
Marshal crew 5 people = 260GBP/Day 7800GBP/Month
Medical crew 2 people = 120GBP/Day 3605GBP/Month
Recover crew 2 people = 104GBP/Day 3120GBP/Month
Race control 2 people = 104GBP/Day 3120GBP/Month
Mechanics for car review/fixes between sessions 2 people = 104GBP/Day 3120GBP/Month
Total: 792GBP/Day 23760GBP/Month

So by my still conservative estimate another 64160GBP per month is needed for the base calcs which is another 13.37GBP per person per session bringing the total to 66.37 per person.

I have a feeling salaries could double/triple what I have said easily, especially for mechanics and medics.

At this point you haven't taken the cost of the vehicles, vehicle prep (roll cages, fire extinguishers, 5 point harness), safety equipment, utilities, personal benefits (insurance,vacation,health), track insurance, track, and track maintenance into account.

You are thinking you will fill sessions every day of the month all day, while people are normally working which is highly unlikely.

If the track rental cost 5000GBP per day thats an extra 31.25 GBP/session.

If you want to make 1 dollar profit per session that 4800$ per month or 57600GBP/year before taxes.

So if everything was perfect and cheap it seems to be at LEAST 98GBP/per session for the driver, and that is still ignoring some expenses.

A few other thoughts:
You will have at least 6 cars totaled/severely damaged per year.
Cars will get trashed quickly because the driver has no "skin" in it, or you lessen the people doing it because if they wreck it and have to pay 2000+GBP for a replacement car.
Weather will not cooperate, causing canceled events.
And realistically - have you been karting at a kart center with new people? They drive karts into each other or walls at full speed because they don't know what they are doing. Almost like they have never driven a vehicle before.

[RacingEngineering]

The black angus, thanks for your computations but on the initial level capital expenditures are not considered (it is a rule).That is why i have not mentioned all data you have provided. Also, if you are interested in it, you can make a sensitivity analysis to find out positive and then negative scenario. In addition, all businesses start from the ground(5-10 people). You can not just come and create an Apple or Microsoft by hiring 1000 people. Especially if you are a student. Consider this fact please

[RacingEngineering]

Also i do not need to think about the racing crew as they will be provided by track. It will be better to hire a track with its crew that to have your own crew, i think.

[RacingEngineering]

http://images.thecarconnection.com/lrg/ ... 9908_l.jpg

Why not if to put some safety roll bars? Light weight, less fuel and tire consumption, small engine. So many solutions.Going with the stream? No,thanks

All people criticizing my idea, you can just give some advises(and thank you for that), but you can not prevent me on finding new solutions. Please don't think that there is just one way leading to nowhere. You can find a lot of ways and i am searching for them. That is why i am here, asking my questions.