Kimi Vs Alonso

[RH1300S]

I think you are missing an important point

Renault were fluffing about whether to stay or not.

Where else to go?

Plenty of places I guess (even if the seats weren't empty - using your argument) - maybe Ferrari would have taken him, maybe others would have found space. For sure, by then, World Champ or not - your price would have to be lower as you would be NEEDING someone to make room for you.

At Mclaren (rightly or wrongly) - I bet Ron Dennis made one helluva pitch to convince him that the McLaren future was very bright indeed. Take a long historical view and you have to say that there's a good chance that Mclaren will be up there again sooner or later. They have invested heavily and the Ronster is far from being a fool. Probably a pretty good stipend came with the promise of future championships and very likely performance clauses. To be honest I don't suppose FA really cares about the money, probably wants enough to show that his worth is being recognised.

Right now, you can argue FA can concentrate entirely on this year's championship - he knows where he's going next - no distractions.

I'd say FA made a good decision.........let's wait and see...

[blue]

kimi's the best driver.all he needs is a car that is fast and reliable.renault won't take him if he's not good enough for their team and i think renault is just bluffing when they said that they'll be in f1 for just a few more years when there on the top right now.and they think that kimi would be the right driver for them or they won't be going after him and pay him 4 times the salary of what alonso is getting right now(as what i have read in the news).but let's wait if kimi's really going to renault next year when they announce it in france(as what they say they'll announce their driver line up for next season) [IMG:408:272]http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f125/ ... 0681_7.jpg[/img]

[NickT]

I'd say FA made a good decision.........let's wait and see...

I agree with you, at the time, Renault were publicly very non commital about their future, political gamesmanship I am sure. But I still not convinced FA was right not to tell Flav he was even concidering the McLaren drive.

Part of me says he wanted to make the decision himself and felt that he didn't need his help. The rest says that Renault and FLav were partners in his career and championship and should have atleast been allowed to counter the McLaren offer and/or reassure him of their future intentions despite the public impression they had been giving.

[mikie9988]

Alonso is looking for the glory by leaving for McLaren. Perhaps he thinks that he's hit the proverbial "glass ceiling" at Renault. What better team to join than McLaren to put you firmly in the sport's spotlight? As it is now, Alonso is still living in MS's shadow because Michael is on the higher-profile team. Alonso wants people to see him as the clear-cut #1 driver in the world, and McLaren is better suited than Renault to give him that position.

And just for the record, the Spanish press is NOTORIOUS for blowing stories out of proportion. Who's to say that Kimi was offered 4 times as much as Alonso? We can only wait and see.

[Frenchblock]

Alonso is looking for the glory by leaving for McLaren. Perhaps he thinks that he's hit the proverbial "glass ceiling" at Renault. What better team to join than McLaren to put you firmly in the sport's spotlight? As it is now, Alonso is still living in MS's shadow because Michael is on the higher-profile team. Alonso wants people to see him as the clear-cut #1 driver in the world, and McLaren is better suited than Renault to give him that position.

And just for the record, the Spanish press is NOTORIOUS for blowing stories out of proportion. Who's to say that Kimi was offered 4 times as much as Alonso? We can only wait and see.

highter profil team mclaren?

uhmm for 5 year everyone are laughing at them, Renault is building a killing machine for the next years, and last times they won seven titles, the could do it with shum, mansell, prost even hill and villeneuve!

ferrari not won without shum, in fact schum is all ferrari glory, mc laren? after berilium drama and profiting that renault went off the F1 was thier only chance to win a title!

now its over!
What better team to join than McLaren to put you firmly in the sport's spotlight?

ask to coulthard and montoya! now kimi!

[flynfrog]

in reality i think the car has helped him more than anything you could put kimi ms or FA in there and they would win the tittle

acutly to be more fair tires are decieding the WDC and the WCC right now

so i think that alonso is trying to prove he can win in a differnt car to show that he is realy that good

i belive this has been posting but hey its only .02 to post right

[sebbe]

There's a reason why you're Junior, Frenchblock, because you know nothing!
The reason why I'm Junior is that I don't like writing b*llsh*t. I don’t like wasting other people’s time by making them read idiotic posts.

McLaren is the most successful team in F1 history, watch the statistics.
You forgot to say that Renault’s won seven titles as ENGINE MANUFACTURER (it’s success was in a big part due to Williams and the other teams they provided with their wonderful engines).

Just stupid people like you have been laughing at McLaren, they made a killing car with an outstanding chassis last year, Mercedes’ engine was the problem.
This year the car is not as good as it should be, but that happens.

Bye frenchie junior.

[Ciro Pabón]

There's a reason why you're Junior, Frenchblock, because you know nothing!
The reason why I'm Junior is that I don't like writing b*llsh*t. I don’t like wasting other people’s time by making them read idiotic posts.

Thanks, sebbe, you are most considerate, but feel free to waste my time anytime you wish ...

You make me wonder how my posts rate on the "idiotic scale", but I don't want to know, please. This is the reason most of us accept posts that we cannot understand: surely some of ours are unintelligible.

Relax, not everybody discount McLaren, but some people have a right to say they have been absent for a long time as a team, as I think Frenchblock tries to explain. I have elsewhere explained how much I enjoyed Hunt winning in 1976 by one point on a McLaren.

I do not want to pour salt on your McLaren wounds, I understand you, being myself a Lotus fan for years (sigh! theirs is an instructing history for any team). But the very fact that you seem to have some wounds implies there are problems at Woking... this has a reason: they are not winning. You are right: they might. Frenchblock points out they should.

Thank the muses of racing for the ever increasing cost of F1 that has given McLaren the leverage needed. They would be in hard financial times under other conditions, I dare to believe. Finally, it seems to me they are throwing people away like madmen, and I am not talking about Montoya, even if I could...

[DaveKillens]

Hindsight is wonderful, it makes us appear smart. We need to recall when and under what circumstances Alonso signed with McLaren. It was a long time ago, between seasons, when things seemed quite different. The people at the top in Renault had stated publicly that they woud stay in F1 only while it was beneficial for Renault. Lack of comittment. Alonso had just won the title convincngly, and obviously, was seeeking financial compensation for his new status. He wanted more money. And for some reason we will probably never know, communication between Flavio and Alonso at that time had degenerated. So Aonso went to a team that at that time, had a killer quick car. They offered him a lot more money, and were definitely committed to staying in F1.
It was a good decision then, and it is still a good decision.
There is a constant ebb and flow of success in major teams, they all endure crappy years every so often. But if you stay in the game long enough, spend enough money, and make few mistakes, success inevitably follows. That will happen with Mclaren. They will be back again, it's inevitable. And Alonso will be there with them.

[Hudsonhawk.]

Dave,

We need to recall when and under what circumstances Alonso signed with McLaren.

Stupidity......

The people at the top in Renault had stated publicly that they woud stay in F1 only while it was beneficial for Renault

Who cares.....he was WDC....I doubt at his age and profile he would struggle to get a seat at more $$$ than he got from Renault!!! OR did he think he was not good enough.

Alonso had just won the title convincngly, and obviously, was seeeking financial compensation for his new status. He wanted more money.

And he got a couple of extra $$$ and a lemon to ride around in.

And for some reason we will probably never know, communication between Flavio and Alonso at that time had degenerated

Flav may have said...."you dumb donkey chaser.....relax...there is plenty of time...." but nooooo he'd had enough of chasing donkeys and so signed a deal that made him the donkey.....

It was a good decision then, and it is still a good decision.

Hindsight

The only thing hindsight has shown us is the level of aloafso's intelligence and how opportunistic Mclaren are.......They ceased Montoya after a little lovers tiff and jagged Alonso in a moment of weakness.

[RH1300S]

Agree with Dave disagree with Hudson

[Sawtooth-spike]

wow we are back on this again!

Hudson me and you have talked about this befor.

I think i have said this befor. But its Like schumy when he moved to ferrari. they where having some really issue back then and look where they are now.

The one mistake alonso have made is that he jumped a little early, cus if he had done it this year he would have got even more money.

Wow this reminds me of Deal or No deal.

[Becker4]

FA went with what he knew at the time, of which we don’t know everything. It is silly to think that we can come to a meaningful judgement on his decision, as we have no way of verifying what exactly what he did or didn’t know. But speculation is entertaining, as is proved by the amount of posts on this wonderful forum. I have been reading this forum for 4 years, been a member for I think three, but rarely post, and I thank (most of you) fine members for your intelligent thoughts and commentary.
Although we surely don’t have the full story, we do know certain things about what could have prompted FA's choice of team. Dave outlined most of them quite well earlier, and I agree with him that according to what we are privy to, FA made an intelligent choice. whether of not it was the right choice, we have yet to see, obviously - but regardless of how it turns out, I don’t believe it can in any way be construed as a stupid, blatantly incorrect thing to do, as some have stated.
Dave, kudos for not replying to Hudson's post in kind - your lack of being drawn into an online war of words, to which the rest of us are subject, is appreciated.

[sebbe]

Hi Ciro, thanks for your reply, man!

You make me wonder how my posts rate on the "idiotic scale", but I don't want to know, please. This is the reason most of us accept posts that we cannot understand: surely some of ours are unintelligible.

I don’t really remember any of your posts as really idiotic; I must assume they’re way below the idiotic-meter detection capabilities. Now you know!

Relax, not everybody discount McLaren, but some people have a right to say they have been absent for a long time as a team,

I have to disagree with you, McLaren hasn’t been absent as a team, at least not the second part of last year! Even during 2005 Pre season they were the team to beat! Reliability issues during the races hindered another Constructors Title. But during 2005 McLaren was in the front page of all F1 related sites all the time.

I do not want to pour salt on your McLaren wounds, I understand you, being myself a Lotus fan for years (sigh! theirs is an instructing history for any team). But the very fact that you seem to have some wounds implies there are problems at Woking... this has a reason: they are not winning. You are right: they might. Frenchblock points out they should.

I have no wounds, really. I don’t really care not winning races or titles as long as McLaren continues to develop good cars… but then, why wouldn’t they win races and titles if they develop good cars…
Anyway, not everything is about winning.
I’m young and still idealistic; many people have pointed that out.

And there are problems at Woking, indeed. And I have an interesting theory about it, but this is neither the place nor the moment to unfold it.

Thank the muses of racing for the ever increasing cost of F1 that has given McLaren the leverage needed. They would be in hard financial times under other conditions, I dare to believe. Finally, it seems to me they are throwing people away like madmen, and I am not talking about Montoya, even if I could...

I have to disagree with you, strongly!. BAR and then BAR-Honda had giant budgets and they did nothing with them. Of course that many teams are more rational than McLaren when you see how much it costs a point for them.

Montoya is just a pilot, the less important part of a car, at least in what F1 is today. Part of the cause of the departure of so many people can be explained by my crazy theory.

I hope you understand me a little bit better now.

[Crabbia]

But its Like schumy when he moved to ferrari. they where having some really issue back then and look where they are now.

Only thing is schumi brought his dream team (Ross Brawn and Rory 'frikken genius' Byrne ) with him as a condition of his employment which is also a large part of why it came right for him.

But also it's as dave said and then again not. there is a constant ebb and flow in the competiveness as he so eloquently put it and as Ron Dennis himself assures the press on many occassions. Thing is if it takes more than 4 yrs for mclaren to get to the top again as surely they will, will FA have the commitment and self belief to see it thru to the ebb and ride on to the flo.

Maybe he will cause he stuck it thru with renault in the 101°days...