2025 Spanish Grand Prix - Barcelona-Catalunya May 30 - June 1

[kurtj]

"McLaren is not dominant"

https://i.postimg.cc/ht9Vh2q9/mclaren.jpg

Is the WDC a foregone conclusion, like it was in the previous years? So long as there is competition between 2 or more drivers, within a team or across, it's still a good championship.

2025 Championship after 8 rounds.
1. Oscar - 161
2. Lando - 158
3. Max - 136

2023 Championship after 8 rounds.
1. Max - 198
2. Perez - 126
3. Alonso - 117

If Red Bull was building car for 2 drivers, 2023 could have looked like 2025, despite Red Bull dominating WCC standings.

[FittingMechanics]

I think there will be many disappointed faces after Barcelona. The flexi wing TD is just increasing the load test (reducing the allowed flex by about a third), any team that has a great understanding of flexibility will still be able to create a wing that flexes, and if any team has a clever geometry that allows more flex at speed than at the deflection test, this will still be an advantage.

[venkyhere]

There is so much written/video-ed/audio-ed about this "TD18 for Barcelona GP" and how it's a 'game changer' , how teams are going to 'suffer' etc etc, they are all clickbaits where incongruous content is being stuffed into the reader/viewer's face.

What is this really ? The front wing flexes (more in some cars, less in others) and the advantage that this offers is - as speeds go higher and higher, the more the wing 'bends' downward (laterally and longitudinally) - the lesser the drag, the lesser the front downforce ; compared to the situation where the front wing is 100% rigid.
It's obvious, the advantage of lesser drag. When is less front downforce useful ? It's useful in a straight line and in high speed long corners, where it's preferable to have the center of pressure on the car to shift rearwards, as any 'strong bite' from the front tyres can produce snap oversteer on the car. The 'less intensely' the front tyres jam into the tarmac in this situation, the 'more room for noise filtering' is there on small twitches in the steering from the vibrations transmitted through the drivers hands from a cockpit which has nil NVH damping. That's all there is to it, IMHO.

And even before this 2025 season started, during the winter break it was announced that all teams will get an "8 races worth preparation time" to correct their wings. Has there ever been a TD that is so much lenient ? I don't have any, in recent memory. All teams have had enough time to 'adapt' their wing and floor designs to 'accommodate' this TD18. I don't expect anyone to suffer a 'performance shocker' because of this TD. There might be slight increase in straightline drag (and hence top speed reduction) for many teams, but nothing more than that. Ferrari, who have had the 'least flexi' front wing of all, are hoping to cash in on their top-speed advantage, since even in the first 8 races, they have been amongst the bunch of cars with highest top speed.

Other than this, I don't think this TD18 is going to do anything. It would have, had it been imposed right from race1. But from the 9th race, this 'bomb' is already a diffused one.

[Vettel165]

There is so much written/video-ed/audio-ed about this "TD18 for Barcelona GP" and how it's a 'game changer' , how teams are going to 'suffer' etc etc, they are all clickbaits where incongruous content is being stuffed into the reader/viewer's face.

What is this really ? The front wing flexes (more in some cars, less in others) and the advantage that this offers is - as speeds go higher and higher, the more the wing 'bends' downward (laterally and longitudinally) - the lesser the drag, the lesser the front downforce ; compared to the situation where the front wing is 100% rigid.
It's obvious, the advantage of lesser drag. When is less front downforce useful ? It's useful in a straight line and in high speed long corners, where it's preferable to have the center of pressure on the car to shift rearwards, as any 'strong bite' from the front tyres can produce snap oversteer on the car. The 'less intensely' the front tyres jam into the tarmac in this situation, the 'more room for noise filtering' is there on small twitches in the steering from the vibrations transmitted through the drivers hands from a cockpit which has nil NVH damping. That's all there is to it, IMHO.

And even before this 2025 season started, during the winter break it was announced that all teams will get an "8 races worth preparation time" to correct their wings. Has there ever been a TD that is so much lenient ? I don't have any, in recent memory. All teams have had enough time to 'adapt' their wing and floor designs to 'accommodate' this TD18. I don't expect anyone to suffer a 'performance shocker' because of this TD. There might be slight increase in straightline drag (and hence top speed reduction) for many teams, but nothing more than that. Ferrari, who have had the 'least flexi' front wing of all, are hoping to cash in on their top-speed advantage, since even in the first 8 races, they have been amongst the bunch of cars with highest top speed.

Other than this, I don't think this TD18 is going to do anything. It would have, had it been imposed right from race1. But from the 9th race, this 'bomb' is already a diffused one.

Indeed, they should change this TD at the start of the season. Not waiting for round 8, something is fishy here.

[_cerber1]

Indeed, they should change this TD at the start of the season. Not waiting for round 8, something is fishy here.

The FIA ​​should have left everything as is and not touched the flexible wings at all. There are budget caps now, this does not allow teams to spend too much money on them. At the same time, flexible wings allow you to really make the car faster and better.

[DJ Downforce]

"McLaren is not dominant"

https://i.postimg.cc/ht9Vh2q9/mclaren.jpg

If Red Bull had a decent number two then that gap would be a lot closer, like the WDC standings.

And whilst they're the fastest, you should post the margin of victory and you'll see they're not as fast as some people with, let's say agendas, might try to convey...

[Quantum]

Is the WDC a foregone conclusion, like it was in the previous years? So long as there is competition between 2 or more drivers, within a team or across, it's still a good championship. .

The narrative then was that other teams needed to catch up.
A far smaller gap now (and 2 drivers competing in the same team) it's "dominance".

Narratives eh?

[Cs98]

"McLaren is not dominant"

https://i.postimg.cc/ht9Vh2q9/mclaren.jpg

Of course not. It's only 170 points in front after 8 races despite its two drivers regularly making mistakes and bottling wins. That's not dominance at all. In fact, it's only scoring 120% more points than the next 3 best teams. Those are rookie numbers, that needs to be at least 200% for it to be considered slightly dominant.

[Paa]

"McLaren is not dominant"

https://i.postimg.cc/ht9Vh2q9/mclaren.jpg

If Red Bull had a decent number two then that gap would be a lot closer, like the WDC standings.

And whilst they're the fastest, you should post the margin of victory and you'll see they're not as fast as some people with, let's say agendas, might try to convey...

What kind of argument that is?
Using that logic I could say, that McLaren should have been even more ahead if their drivers were more competent and maximize their possibilities. It works both ways and leads nowhere.

[DJ Downforce]

"McLaren is not dominant"

https://i.postimg.cc/ht9Vh2q9/mclaren.jpg

If Red Bull had a decent number two then that gap would be a lot closer, like the WDC standings.

And whilst they're the fastest, you should post the margin of victory and you'll see they're not as fast as some people with, let's say agendas, might try to convey...

What kind of argument that is?
Using that logic I could say, that McLaren should have been even more ahead if their drivers were more competent and maximize their possibilities. It works both ways and leads nowhere.

You could say that, but you would sound unreasonable

So looking at the results of Australia 2023 pre safety car, Verstappen should've been way further ahead with the car he had? Or Belgium 2020, Hamilton should've been way further ahead? No, its called the car's performance lol

[Paa]

If Red Bull had a decent number two then that gap would be a lot closer, like the WDC standings.

And whilst they're the fastest, you should post the margin of victory and you'll see they're not as fast as some people with, let's say agendas, might try to convey...

What kind of argument that is?
Using that logic I could say, that McLaren should have been even more ahead if their drivers were more competent and maximize their possibilities. It works both ways and leads nowhere.

You could say that, but you would sound unreasonable

So looking at the results of Australia 2023 pre safety car, Verstappen should've been way further ahead with the car he had? Or Belgium 2020, Hamilton should've been way further ahead? No, its called the car's performance lol

Yes, the guy arguing that McLaren has by far the best car would certainly sound unreasonable.

[DJ Downforce]

What kind of argument that is?
Using that logic I could say, that McLaren should have been even more ahead if their drivers were more competent and maximize their possibilities. It works both ways and leads nowhere.

You could say that, but you would sound unreasonable

So looking at the results of Australia 2023 pre safety car, Verstappen should've been way further ahead with the car he had? Or Belgium 2020, Hamilton should've been way further ahead? No, its called the car's performance lol

Yes, the guy arguing that McLaren has by far the best car would certainly sound unreasonable.

Now, now - you seemed to be changing your language. You called it Dominant which doesn't seem to be accurate.

[Balalu]

Anything to put the McLaren drivers down I guess.

[fourmula1]

"McLaren is not dominant"

https://i.postimg.cc/ht9Vh2q9/mclaren.jpg

Is the WDC a foregone conclusion, like it was in the previous years? So long as there is competition between 2 or more drivers, within a team or across, it's still a good championship.

2025 Championship after 8 rounds.
1. Oscar - 161
2. Lando - 158
3. Max - 136

2023 Championship after 8 rounds.
1. Max - 198
2. Perez - 126
3. Alonso - 117

If Red Bull was building car for 2 drivers, 2023 could have looked like 2025, despite Red Bull dominating WCC standings.

This is a crude visual representation of gaps at the end of the race.
Red/orange = bigger gap = more dominant.
Green/yellow = smaller gap = closer race.
Overall I think this season is much closer. Quali is super tight, the top drivers are pushing the limits of the cars and themselves.
The gaps in the race are not as big. Not corrected in any for safety cars or anything. Just raw results.

[deadhead]