FIA continues to help Ferrari

[Venom]

Excuse my language, but un-----believable.

MS never had anything to do with what happened at Monza

Actually, he has everything to do with it. He has a chance for the title this year.

Even though Massa was the one who complained I'm sure he was the last person in Ferrari wanting to complain to stewards. I'm sure no one doubts he was told to do so by Ferrari bosses just to help Schuey. So, as pRo said, what happened in Monza happened only because of Schuey's "glory".

are you sure FIA didn't stich something up in Alonso's engine to blow it so schumi gets advatage? you never know!

lolz

[Rob W]

I said this also in another thread but the way the changes that have happened this year are nothing short of astounding.

So, at the next race-meet Massa slows down during an out-lap in quali and renault claims the exact same thing has happened.... and Charlie says "yes, it looks worse than last time, but wasn't deliberate so I wont refer to the marshalls..."...

And then Schumy wins the title by 4 points e.g., he would have won the title solely on one driver being handicapped by a rule while another isn't.

This has seriously got to stop. The fact that Max even saw fit to look into this rule and how it's interpreted shows to me that Bernie's comments the other day have made FIA take a close look at itself. Unfortunately Max lives in a bubble where common sense and fair-play ideals don't seem to exist.

This totally sucks... I hope Alsonso gets a quick lap time in and then inadvertedly 'hinders' Schumy who then complains but nothing happens as Charie is scared to of the ----storm it'll cause if he does. I would be smiling ear to ear if that happened.

Rob W

[captainmorgan]

Im not sure i understand what data would show in the case of Schumi's Monaco parking manuever, and i would guess that pit lane speed is monitored by radar guns or whatnot that wouldnt necessarily require team data. But if it helps, then why not

However I do think that Massa's data from S1, S2, and parabolica would be useful in qualifying the stewards' judgment, as showing a block there at nonobvious distances has to be a subtle effect.

And as for team privacy about telemetry, that got me to thinking. While I can understand why Ferrari wouldnt want it released, would it be a bad idea if regulations were changed so that ALL teams are forced to publish telemetry from each race? Things would be more accountable that way, and teams would probably spend less time playing catchup to each other. Plus there'd be way more pages to look at on this site.

[allan]

what about this senareo:
1st ferrari sneaked in to the renault garage and played with alonso's tires causing one of them to blow up during q3!
2nd alonso's tire blew up, but he went in infront of massa!
3rd michael asked massa to go and complain about alonso, even though it wasn't alonso's fault that he was more than 7 tenthes a lap slower than the ferrari and on his out lap,and didn't let the faster car get near him.....
4th ferrari sneaked in to the renault garage again(looks like the ferrari engineers are spending more time in the renault garage than their own!!)and screwed up "babe fernandeeno's" engine, causing it to blow up...
finally even though michael's fastest lap was about 6 tenthes a lap faster than alonso's (on old engine) fernandeeeno could win the race, if ferrari didn't play all those nasty things!!!
pretty logical, isn't it???

[manchild]

Tyre blow and engine blow have nothing to do with Ferrari and FIA and no one ever blamed that couple for it.

[beerbellybob]

Another example of the FIA's bias. When Ferrari developed the flexi wings and practically all the other teams protested they didn't do anything about it initially. Once most other teams were almost done with developing their own flexi wings (which would have considerably reduced Ferrari's advantage) the FIA went ahead with a ban on flexi wings. But if I'm not mistaken Ferrari were allowed the advantage of their flexi wings (with no penalty) for a couple of races.

And this is an old story but the last time the FIA was sure that their meddling would affect the F1 WC they did meddle. This was the Michelin saga of flexible sidewalls. Practically handed the WC to Ferrari when they were being caught rapidly by (I don't remember) Williams or McLaren.

[West]

Another example of the FIA's bias. When Ferrari developed the flexi wings and practically all the other teams protested they didn't do anything about it initially. Once most other teams were almost done with developing their own flexi wings (which would have considerably reduced Ferrari's advantage) the FIA went ahead with a ban on flexi wings. But if I'm not mistaken Ferrari were allowed the advantage of their flexi wings (with no penalty) for a couple of races.

And this is an old story but the last time the FIA was sure that their meddling would affect the F1 WC they did meddle. This was the Michelin saga of flexible sidewalls. Practically handed the WC to Ferrari when they were being caught rapidly by (I don't remember) Williams or McLaren.

Did you mean in 2003 the expanding width of the tire?

[beerbellybob]

Ya exactly

[pRo]

So, at the next race-meet Massa slows down during an out-lap in quali and renault claims the exact same thing has happened.... and Charlie says "yes, it looks worse than last time, but wasn't deliberate so I wont refer to the marshalls..."...

I hope Alsonso gets a quick lap time in and then inadvertedly 'hinders' Schumy who then complains but nothing happens

You just have to remember this:

Only in cases where it appears to race control that there has been a clear and deliberate attempt to impede another driver will the stewards be asked to intervene.

Appears to be an attempt to impede? WTF is that? It doesn't even have to be impeding anymore, anything that maybe perhaps possibly appears to be an attempt to impede is enough? Another if perhaps maybe for the stewards to do what they want. To me it seems just another rule, which gives the stewards and race control too much power based on opinions. I'm not a religious person, but thank God there aren't any more races in Italy this season.

[FLC]

Yes, that's right. You know, pRo, when the FIA looks to hire new stewards, the first requirement on the list is 'psychic ability'. That is, ofcourse, so that they will be able to know when a driver, beyond any doubt, has done something deliberately. I assume that's why you must think the wording of the regulation needs to be changed...

[mcdenife]

FLC wrote:

Did they show the data from MS's incident at Monaco? Because maybe the interpretation there wasnt right too... Did they show the data from VIL and FIS's incident? They never show the data, no matter which teams are involved. Why should Ferrari show their's?

The point is that almost everybody felt (knew) that the FIA was wrong to penalise alonso. That in effect meant the FIA had to justify their actions. However in justifying their actions, the FIA said they based their decision on the data but still nobody (almost) believes them. The onus is therefore on the FIA to justfify their ruling or actions.
An anology:
If you punish a man for a crime but dont tell him your verdict was based on evidence placing him at the scene or time of the crime, then how can he defend himself. How can he tell or prove to you that in fact he has categorical or unrefutable evidence which places him 1000 km away from the scene and the time of crime? Its that simple. Loving or hating MS, FA or any other competitor for that, is one thing. Being unable to see a right, wrong or be fair is quite another.
I may be ignorant of the inner workings or shenanigans of the world of F1 but I am neither blind or stupid. The most annoying thing about all of this is that FIA thinks all their Fans are.

[FLC]

I dont think I ever argued that the FIA's doings are fair or right. Your arguments, which I'm familiar and agree with, fits the Monza case exactly as much as they fit other incidents, from this season and before. But they do not mean that the FIA is helping Ferrari in any way. The FIA should justify their decisions all the time , not just when a particular team is involved.

[mcdenife]

The FIA should justify their decisions all the time , not just when a particular team is involved.

absolutely agree.

But they do not mean that the FIA is helping Ferrari in any way.

Sorry but when you take everything into consideration ie, certain decisions, rulings, timings, this & other mid-season rule changes and their timing, you cannot but be suspicious. It looks like crap, feels like crap, smells likes crap but we are told since we have not tasted it (assuming we want to or know what crap tastes like), then we should not jump to the conclusion that it is crap.

[FLC]

So correct me if I'm wrong, but what you're saying is that for the FIA to make a decision - they need to show you some proof, and when the FIA-Ferrari connection is under the light - you dont need any real proof, because to you it smells and tastes and looks like crap and so it must be crap (even though you used the word 'suspicious' yourself)? Did I say or not say that you people are infected with double morale?
Oh and I know that it's not your job to supply the proof, but it seems that even the people that it is their job - cant do it. For the last 10(!) years according to some people's views here. So by the argument you gave - the FIA/Ferrari are innocent until proven guilty, isnt that so?

[walter]

[quote="allan"
3rd michael asked massa to go and complain about alonso, even though it wasn't alonso's fault that he was more than 7 tenthes a lap slower than the ferrari and on his out lap,and didn't let the faster car get near him.....
pretty logical, isn't it???[/quote]

wow! i really hope you are being sarcastic. if you are not, you are saying that massa has no brain capacity to make up his own opinions. Do not discredit the young guy, he's fast. I just hope he doesn't grow a big head like alonso.

In terms of the FIA ruling. I think its difficult, its not like court. once a race is over there is no way of over-ruling a decision, no way. Yes it was a crappy decision to penalize alonso. if they were really biased to ferrari, they would stand by their decision, however they didnt because they know the stewards screwed up on that one. And now they are just covering their asses by making up that ruling. Please folks, no more conspiracy theories.