Does alonso have a big MOUTH, you decide..

[manchild]

One more Ferrari fan (true Ferrari fan - not Schuey fan)

[Tp]

Alonso remember Monza? Hungary? You're a cheater!

[DaveKillens]

Opinions, everyone has them. It would be a very sad, dull world if we all agreed on everything. And it's an amazing and interesting human condition where we all see the same thing, we all receive the same information, yet we all perceive the message in individual, personal manners. And we form different conclusions.
Obviously, this thread is all about opinions, and it started with a few definitely pro-Schumacher. They are not based on facts, they are just opinions. If you ask who is the most successful driver in F1, the numbers most definitely state Michael Schumacher. But when you start to discuss "sportsmanship", then it becomes a lot less black and white and more personal opinion. And please, don't confuse on-track performance and results with personal behavior. Because how we conduct ourselves as human beings defines such things as "sportsman", or "cheat".
Personally, I prefer not to use the "cheat" word, it's harsh. And to attack someone else just because of their opinion is not going to win any argument, you are just trashing someone else.
Fernando Alonso, or Michael Schumacher have the right to voice their opinion. And so do those fans on either side of the "love him or hate him" fence. And being right or wrong on opinion isn't measured by wins, it's just someone's opinion.
So make up your own mind, if it already isn't fixed. I suspect most already have strong opinions, one way or another. I'm sure if someone dug up a thousand pro-Schumacher quotes, I could easily dig up a thousand disagreeing. That doesn't win any argument, it just uses up a lot of server space.
So if you want to examine whether Michael Schumacher is a "sportsman", or not, examine his history, offences, penalties, and compare them to everyone else. And if his indiscretions are more than others, or average higher on a yearly basis, then an opinion may be formed.
Opinions, everyone has one.

Myself, personally, I think that Michael Schumacher is not a sportsman, that he is definiteoly not the poster boy for "fair play".

[manchild]

Alonso remember Monza? Hungary? You're a cheater!

Schuey did park his car - that was visible, Schuey did overtake under red flag - that was visible.

Alonso's "Brakechecking and impeedeing" were suggested by stewards but never prooved with any evidence. Doornboss could have braked late and that could have also been described as Alonso's "brakechecking" while "impeeding" couldn't be prooved at all.

[DaveKillens]

Only movie stars in racing movies wear white. At one time or another, I'm sure every racer has made a mistake, or done something questionable.
Both Michael Schumacher and Fernando Alonso have been penalized more than once this season. So what? S--t happens, they are both locked in one of the classic struggles for the World Driver's Championship. The gloves came off many months ago, this is now a bare knuckle brawl between two very talented, but different drivers.
Of course, we can argue ad nauseum about the fairness of the punishments, and the integrity of the drivers.
What do I think? Mad Max is a freak, and Charlie Whiting has lost any semblance of integrity and respect. Their book of rules and how they are applied has made this one of the more controversial seasons. It sure stinks up the show.
But even though the politics and crap has been disturbing, and made questionable who deserves to be the champion, (as a general rule, the best driver in the best car wins) we're watching some very interesting racing.
Two very good teams, and two very good drivers eclipsing just about everyone else in a titanic struggle. For me, it's great stuff watching such great talent and fantastic equipment going at it tooth and nail.

[mini696]

well well...... what more could i add

Of course you agree Saam. You are as biased towards MS as these guys are.

[mini696]

Funny how Alonso cries about M. Schumacher being unsportsmanlike, when this is the same person who deliberately slows down M.S so he has to overtake, tricking him to get penalised and also Dangerously Brake-tested Doornbus. I like Alonso, Schumacher out of the way he's probably my favourite, but what he's doing at the moment is unsporting, he should accept it like a man, let the team sort the politics out and let his driving do the talking.

Deliberately my ass. If you say that Alonso slowing for a RED FLAG was to trip up MS, you are being nieve. MS should have been slowing too, with all the skill he supposedly has he shouldnt have been caught out anyway.

"Dangerously Brake-tested Doornbus". Thats the funniest thing I have heard. If that was a brake test I'll eat my left shoe. Alonso was doing these moves every corner at Monza '05 to prevent MS overtaking him.

"he should accept it like a man, let the team sort the politics out and let his driving do the talking" Totally agree with this though. At the moment his driving says nothing.

[pRo]

I will never respect Alonso. He was the hapiest man in the world after Germany 2005 race with Briatore. If that is sports man, who isn't. He can be the best driver in f1 which is not, but after that race i will never respect such man like him or Briatore. To be happy on other accident is just not fair.
Schumaher is bad too but he never have a joy on other accident, not when hakkinen had a engine failure and lost f1 title, not for alonso in last race.

Ah, yes. Remember Indy 2005, where shoemaker and ferrari weren't happy about the Michelin accidents and the fact that they couldn't race after those? Remember how they didn't joke about it live in the radio for the whole world? Something along the lines of "Michael, your tyres are good for another 100 laps". Sorry, I don't remember exactly, but I'm sure you can Google for it.

Good thing you know he never has a joy on others accidents, he sure could've fooled me. If that wasn't a joy on the Michelin accidents and slapping it on their face, I don't know what would be.

[boban-mk]

I will never respect Alonso. He was the hapiest man in the world after Germany 2005 race with Briatore. If that is sports man, who isn't. He can be the best driver in f1 which is not, but after that race i will never respect such man like him or Briatore. To be happy on other accident is just not fair.
Schumaher is bad too but he never have a joy on other accident, not when hakkinen had a engine failure and lost f1 title, not for alonso in last race.

Ah, yes. Remember Indy 2005, where shoemaker and ferrari weren't happy about the Michelin accidents and the fact that they couldn't race after those? Remember how they didn't joke about it live in the radio for the whole world? Something along the lines of "Michael, your tyres are good for another 100 laps". Sorry, I don't remember exactly, but I'm sure you can Google for it.

Good thing you know he never has a joy on others accidents, he sure could've fooled me. If that wasn't a joy on the Michelin accidents and slapping it on their face, I don't know what would be.

Yes, that is the same as my example . Who do you fooling around. Others or you.

[ketanpaul]

I had a lot of respect for Fernando which has now reduced to a negative quantity. I agree there has to be freedom of speech but a man who cannot respect people elder and much better than him, not only in f1 but in general, he'she can never succeed in life. Had a person like Niki Lauda or Mansell said this, I wouldnt have had any problems but a 24 year old new kid on the block? Alonso f***k off

[pRo]

I will never respect Alonso. He was the hapiest man in the world after Germany 2005 race with Briatore. If that is sports man, who isn't. He can be the best driver in f1 which is not, but after that race i will never respect such man like him or Briatore. To be happy on other accident is just not fair.
Schumaher is bad too but he never have a joy on other accident, not when hakkinen had a engine failure and lost f1 title, not for alonso in last race.

Ah, yes. Remember Indy 2005, where shoemaker and ferrari weren't happy about the Michelin accidents and the fact that they couldn't race after those? Remember how they didn't joke about it live in the radio for the whole world? Something along the lines of "Michael, your tyres are good for another 100 laps". Sorry, I don't remember exactly, but I'm sure you can Google for it.

Good thing you know he never has a joy on others accidents, he sure could've fooled me. If that wasn't a joy on the Michelin accidents and slapping it on their face, I don't know what would be.

Yes, that is the same as my example . Who do you fooling around. Others or you.

So, in your opinion, what's the major difference there?

Germany 2005, Raikkonen's car breaks down on lap 35 while he has 11s lead over Alonso. Alonso probably wouldn't have a chance to win the race, if nothing happened. Something happens, Alonso wins and he's happy. Raikkonen doesn't die or injure.

Indy 2005, Michelin tyres break down before the race and (after lots of this and that) the cars don't race. Schumi probably wouldn't have a chance to win the race, if nothing happened. Something happens, Schumi wins and he's happy. No one died, Ralf is injured and missed the next race.

Again, what's the major difference? I see two races where the winner is happy and shows it, because he won a race that he probably couldn't have without others technical issues.


Do you really think that Schumi wasn't happy when Alonso's engine blew in the last race? If he really hated that it happened, he could've chosen not to finish the race. The way he feels and the way he acts aren't related.


Also, ketanpaul, do you think that most young drivers keep thinking that they really must suck and the old farts must be the best drivers in the world. I don't think so. I bet they are thinking that they are the best drivers in the world and if only they had equal cars, they could prove it. You just don't go to F1 to show respect to old people. Some say it out loud, while the rest keep their thoughts to themselves.

Do you still respect Schumi after what he said about Senna and Prost when he was the new kid on the block?

[boban-mk]

Germany 2005, Raikkonen's car breaks down on lap 35 while he has 11s lead over Alonso. Alonso probably wouldn't have a chance to win the race, if nothing happened. Something happens, Alonso wins and he's happy. Raikkonen doesn't die or injure.

As i said i will repeat again, jut in case you didn't forget. Who do you trying to fool around. Others or you.

I mean't for Nurburgring, where kimi was having 32 seconds ahead 10 laps before end and when his suspension break apart in last lap. Then Alonso win and was extremly happy. But that is ok, every one can have joy if he show also some respect. But his statement was that he deserved that win.

Please don't turn everything on MS. You as a fan of Alonso should be also realistic about his bad moves, not just for others. Yes he can also be unfair.

[pRo]

I mean't for Nurburgring, where kimi was having 32 seconds ahead 10 laps before end and when his suspension break apart in last lap. Then Alonso win and was extremly happy.

Ah, why didn't you say so in the first place? But that doesn't really change a thing, does it? Just change the lap number and the number of seconds in the text below.

"Germany 2005, Raikkonen's car breaks down on lap 35 while he has 11s lead over Alonso. Alonso probably wouldn't have a chance to win the race, if nothing happened. Something happens, Alonso wins and he's happy. Raikkonen doesn't die or injure."

But his statement was that he deserved that win.

In the press conference Alonso says that they were very lucky.

Please don't turn everything on MS. You as a fan of Alonso should be also realistic about his bad moves, not just for others. Yes he can also be unfair.

Please don't say whose fan I am, because you don't know it. I'm not a fan of Alonso. I never said he can't make bad moves or be unfair. This is the point I argued:
"Schumaher never have a joy on other accident"

[Tp]

Alonso's "Brakechecking and impeedeing" were suggested by stewards but never prooved with any evidence.

Use your eyes.

Deliberately my ass. If you say that Alonso slowing for a RED FLAG was to trip up MS, you are being nieve. MS should have been slowing too, with all the skill he supposedly has he shouldnt have been caught out anyway.

"Dangerously Brake-tested Doornbus". Thats the funniest thing I have heard. If that was a brake test I'll eat my left shoe. Alonso was doing these moves every corner at Monza '05 to prevent MS overtaking him.

Alonso was driving that slowly the BMW behind it was overtaking him. Doornbus nearly crashed into him, so if thats not dangerous what is?

[Jersey Tom]

This isn't about cheating, or Ferrari-biased this or that. C'mon, from a simple human perspective, Alonso was being a dick. If he wants to show that MS isn't sporting and he himself is, he shouldnt be stooping so low to take such shots at the winningest F1 driver in history as he retires.

Ok, MS did some sketchy stuff. So does everyone. Even without that, look at how many damn wins he has! He's good!