Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Leon Kennedy wrote:
02 Mar 2026, 16:10
...blabla....
My idea was that if Honda made a competitive engine, they could be up there fighting, not the best, but competitive yes. Then I will be wrong or right, this is my idea
So why do you both write your fingers wound and not just say the idea if it is anyways off topic?

I thought that this is an interesting thread on the past of Aston and the BAR failure, but we are down to what Newey did in 1978 and what might or might not work on the Aston Martin... :shock: :roll:
Don`t russel the hamster!

Hoffman900
Hoffman900
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Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Remember when a dig at Andretti was the quality of entrant? Oof.

Honda seems to have a hot / cold relationship in pro motorsports be it 4 wheel or 2 wheel. They’re “there” until they’re not. I think it’s not unsafe to make a 50/50 bet on them throwing in the towel in the next 2-3 years. F1 has seemed to reach “peak” market to me, but tbd. 

Leon Kennedy
Leon Kennedy
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Joined: 22 Jan 2026, 18:55

Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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basti313 wrote:
02 Mar 2026, 16:34
Leon Kennedy wrote:
02 Mar 2026, 16:10
...blabla....
My idea was that if Honda made a competitive engine, they could be up there fighting, not the best, but competitive yes. Then I will be wrong or right, this is my idea
So why do you both write your fingers wound and not just say the idea if it is anyways off topic?

I thought that this is an interesting thread on the past of Aston and the BAR failure, but we are down to what Newey did in 1978 and what might or might not work on the Aston Martin... :shock: :roll:
Where would it be off topic? We're talking about Aston Martin and Honda.

basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Leon Kennedy wrote:
02 Mar 2026, 18:48
basti313 wrote:
02 Mar 2026, 16:34
Leon Kennedy wrote:
02 Mar 2026, 16:10
...blabla....
My idea was that if Honda made a competitive engine, they could be up there fighting, not the best, but competitive yes. Then I will be wrong or right, this is my idea
So why do you both write your fingers wound and not just say the idea if it is anyways off topic?

I thought that this is an interesting thread on the past of Aston and the BAR failure, but we are down to what Newey did in 1978 and what might or might not work on the Aston Martin... :shock: :roll:
Where would it be off topic? We're talking about Aston Martin and Honda.
I see two topics...you seem to not agree on car issues and discuss what Newey did more than 30 years ago.

Car issues -> car thread. We know they are in deep ---, does not need to go in every thread in all detail besides the car thread.
What Newey did in the summer of 69 -> who cares
Don`t russel the hamster!

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zoroastar
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Joined: 31 Aug 2017, 08:04

Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 19:54
Leon Kennedy wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 15:15
Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 14:57


Sorry, but that's absolutely not true. According to Stroll, they are 4.5 seconds behind, which would mean that the engine has 400 hp less power. Even if Stroll's statements should not be taken at face value, this makes it clear that it is not just the engine that is causing problems. Let's summarize the known problems, some of which have been acknowledged by the team:

The most serious problem actually concerns the integration of the new Honda power unit. As Honda has now confirmed, the engine suffers from abnormal vibrations at high revs, which are so severe that they have repeatedly damaged the newly developed battery system.
However, it would not be the first time that Newey has requested a low crankshaft from the manufacturer. Newey is known for introducing precisely such measures and concepts to achieve the lowest possible center of gravity, especially in cars less than 200 cm wide. In order to place the crankshaft as low as possible in the car, the crankcase must be extremely flat at the bottom. The problem: The flatter the housing, the less material is available to absorb the massive bending forces. The result: the entire engine block begins to "work." Under full load, the housing twists minimally, which throws the crankshaft bearing passages out of alignment. This generates high-frequency vibrations that stress the engine head and internal components, as well as the battery system. It is therefore entirely possible that the concept of the car itself is contributing to this.

Another critical point is the transmission, which Aston Martin now manufactures in-house, unlike in previous years, and no longer sources from Mercedes, and problems with this have been acknowledged. After years of external supply, the company is now manufacturing a transmission itself for the first time. The extreme stresses caused by increased energy recovery during braking lead to mechanical weaknesses that make the car unstable when downshifting. Fernando Alonso expressed concern about the drivability and described the car as one of the most difficult to tune he has ever driven.

Added to this is a delay in aerodynamic development. As Adrian Newey was only able to join the project at a later stage, work in the wind tunnel started about four months after the competition. As a result, the team is currently still busy solving fundamental correlation issues, while teams such as Ferrari and Mercedes are already working on fine-tuning their upgrades.

During testing, it was observed that the rear end suddenly breaks away, which can have several causes. Newey has positioned the wishbones extremely high—some of them are attached directly to the rear wing structure, as has often been noted and reported. One problem could be that this design is intended to maximize airflow under the rear wing (similar to the beam wing that was previously permitted). However, this can also lead to instability during load changes. When the car dives during braking or in fast corner combinations, aerodynamic stall at the rear can occur very abruptly, leading to sudden oversteer. Stiffness problems may also be to blame.

Ultimately, based on the problems acknowledged and the obvious vehicle dynamics characteristics, it is clear that there is more than one problem with the new Aston Martin. And as mentioned, the team itself admits to problems with the transmission and rear end in addition to the engine.

These facts alone make it clear that this cannot be compared to Williams or McLaren in the 1990s, where Newey joined teams with established structures, organization, technology, procedures, and methodologies that were already on a clear upward trend and belonged to the absolute top teams, but rather to a team where all of this is still lacking. The admitted errors with the gearbox alone prove that (at least in some areas) the necessary technology, methodologies, and procedures are lacking. Newey himself has already publicly stated that there is a lack of correlation between the wind tunnel and problems with the simulator. It is therefore very clear and obvious that Aston Martin is much more comparable to Red Bull in 2006, when Newey moved there, than to Williams and McLaren in the 1990s, even though it has newer and more modern infrastructure. And in a team with such limitations, even Adrian Newey cannot work miracles. This is as logical as it is simple. Because if the wind tunnel and simulator alone do not provide data that is precise and "good" enough, even Newey will end up with a car that is problematic and slow. And we're not even talking about "losses" in the organizational area, or in methodologies and procedures.

But to cut a long story short, the AM26 has more problems than just the engine itself, as the team itself admits. So it's wrong to say that if AM had a Mercedes engine, "they would win with Adrian like in 1990." Because to win, a car needs a good transmission and a good rear end. The AM lacks both, which is certainly not due to the engine and therefore makes it obvious that the problems run deeper. And since the team itself, as the highest authority, acknowledges and admits these problems, this is clear evidence that there is more wrong than just the engine. Or is the team lying and saying it has problems where there are none? That doesn't make much sense and would be a first in F1....
If you provide sources for what you say about these issues, you'll be doing everyone a favor😂. Regarding the rear, I don't see the problems you listed, rather I see problems at the front, but in my opinion they are due to the fact that they haven't touched the car at all regarding the setup. Regarding the gearbox, it's a problem we noticed during the videos, but no one has made an official statement about it. The only reported problem so far is the engine, according to Honda. Lobato himself also stated that Newey says he's absolutely fine with the aero/chassis side of things.

Then okay about the Redbull 2007 comparison, you already know my opinion objectively we are in two completely different worlds, a team that was born that year and that did not have any structure capable of competing Aston Martin, on the other hand, has the best facilities in F1 and has already had previous seasons, such as the eight podiums in 2023 without Newey. Not to mention the names that have passed through this team.

If it goes badly, that's another story.
Posting sources for something that has already been said in F1 TV broadcasts and numerous media outlets? Or where a simple Google search would suffice? I don't think that's my responsibility, especially since the sources, namely the team itself, were mentioned in the aforementioned media outlets. Mike Krack, for example, confirms the problems with the gearbox and suspension and in virtually all areas:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mike-krac ... f1-testing

Especially since these things quickly get around in the paddock and there is usually some truth to them. And according to Honda, the vibration problem goes much deeper and is probably not caused by the engine itself:

https://www.autohebdof1.com/news/f1/Hon ... artin.html

Newey also said recently that they are four months behind...not that he is satisfied with the aero/chassis side. He said "confident."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/newey-re ... evelopment

But what is he supposed to say—that everything is crap? A disaster? Everyone can see that anyway. Furthermore, Newey also admitted that there were problems with the overall package.

This is all clear evidence that speaks for itself. Namely, that it's not working at AM yet. If it were, there wouldn't be such huge problems everywhere, as Mike Krack confirms.

But you're welcome to keep talking yourself into believing otherwise, that honestly comes across more like denying the facts out of desperation. Because the facts speak for themselves. And just because Aston Martin had a reasonably good year in 2023 doesn't mean they're there yet, especially since 2024 and 2025 painted a completely different picture, with hundreds of updates that didn't work and the team getting worse rather than better. This doesn't come out of nowhere, but clearly demonstrates problems with correlation and other issues. The points in 2023 (280), 2024 (243), and 2025 (89) also show a clear downward trend. And you don't judge a team based on something that happened three years ago. Three years is an eternity in F1, but where you were last year is what counts. Last year, Aston Martin was in 7th place with only 89 points and updates that didn't work.

All this speaks volumes, because with a team at the level you claim, things like this don't happen, because there are reasons for things like this. We actually live in two worlds—me in reality and in a world that has been involved with F1 for 42 years. You in the world that desparately just wants Newey to put his best foot forward and suddenly, overnight, a world championship car comes out. But that's not how F1 works, and is currently being proven once again (see Krack's statements – problems everywhere, gearbox, Honda – engine/chassis interaction, etc.) – but these are precisely the things that don't happen at top-level teams that work this way – see Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, which produce an engine-chassis unit that runs smoothly and not something thats according to Mike Krack from Aston Martin "has problems everywhere".
if they installed a mercedes engine in the back of it they wouldve probably run hundreds of more laps at full power by now. all the honda fans are trying to micro analyze this situation into a newey problem, an aston martin problem or a gearbox problem. honda need to get with the program and stop jumping in and out of the sport every time the weather changes. that would probably go a long way toward not embarressing themselves every time a new engine has to be designed.

Andi76
Andi76
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Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 20:19

Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Leon Kennedy wrote:
02 Mar 2026, 16:10
Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 19:54
Leon Kennedy wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 15:15


If you provide sources for what you say about these issues, you'll be doing everyone a favor😂. Regarding the rear, I don't see the problems you listed, rather I see problems at the front, but in my opinion they are due to the fact that they haven't touched the car at all regarding the setup. Regarding the gearbox, it's a problem we noticed during the videos, but no one has made an official statement about it. The only reported problem so far is the engine, according to Honda. Lobato himself also stated that Newey says he's absolutely fine with the aero/chassis side of things.

Then okay about the Redbull 2007 comparison, you already know my opinion objectively we are in two completely different worlds, a team that was born that year and that did not have any structure capable of competing Aston Martin, on the other hand, has the best facilities in F1 and has already had previous seasons, such as the eight podiums in 2023 without Newey. Not to mention the names that have passed through this team.

If it goes badly, that's another story.
Posting sources for something that has already been said in F1 TV broadcasts and numerous media outlets? Or where a simple Google search would suffice? I don't think that's my responsibility, especially since the sources, namely the team itself, were mentioned in the aforementioned media outlets. Mike Krack, for example, confirms the problems with the gearbox and suspension and in virtually all areas:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mike-krac ... f1-testing

Especially since these things quickly get around in the paddock and there is usually some truth to them. And according to Honda, the vibration problem goes much deeper and is probably not caused by the engine itself:

https://www.autohebdof1.com/news/f1/Hon ... artin.html

Newey also said recently that they are four months behind...not that he is satisfied with the aero/chassis side. He said "confident."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/newey-re ... evelopment

But what is he supposed to say—that everything is crap? A disaster? Everyone can see that anyway. Furthermore, Newey also admitted that there were problems with the overall package.

This is all clear evidence that speaks for itself. Namely, that it's not working at AM yet. If it were, there wouldn't be such huge problems everywhere, as Mike Krack confirms.

But you're welcome to keep talking yourself into believing otherwise, that honestly comes across more like denying the facts out of desperation. Because the facts speak for themselves. And just because Aston Martin had a reasonably good year in 2023 doesn't mean they're there yet, especially since 2024 and 2025 painted a completely different picture, with hundreds of updates that didn't work and the team getting worse rather than better. This doesn't come out of nowhere, but clearly demonstrates problems with correlation and other issues. The points in 2023 (280), 2024 (243), and 2025 (89) also show a clear downward trend. And you don't judge a team based on something that happened three years ago. Three years is an eternity in F1, but where you were last year is what counts. Last year, Aston Martin was in 7th place with only 89 points and updates that didn't work.

All this speaks volumes, because with a team at the level you claim, things like this don't happen, because there are reasons for things like this. We actually live in two worlds—me in reality and in a world that has been involved with F1 for 42 years. You in the world that desparately just wants Newey to put his best foot forward and suddenly, overnight, a world championship car comes out. But that's not how F1 works, and is currently being proven once again (see Krack's statements – problems everywhere, gearbox, Honda – engine/chassis interaction, etc.) – but these are precisely the things that don't happen at top-level teams that work this way – see Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, which produce an engine-chassis unit that runs smoothly and not something thats according to Mike Krack from Aston Martin "has problems everywhere".
I don't understand why you speak as if you are trying to convince someone, when we can simply talk and have our opinions.

That said, I agree that when paddock voices converge, there is some truth to it. I don't think Aston Martin went to Melbourne and would have finished first and second. I simply look at things from a 360-degree perspective and Aston Martin was already an important team before Newey's arrival, Briatore himself declared that Newey had not taken Alpine into consideration because he didn't find it competitive. This makes me believe that he saw enormous untapped potential in Aston Martin. He is an engineer who, in addition to aerodynamics, knows other systems very well, such as mechanics and integration with the engine. Clearly, on paper, he makes you make a leap in quality.
Regarding the problems they are having with the car, they haven't even adjusted the setup at the moment, they don't even know if the aero and chassis are OK, They were constantly running 2k rpm less than the others in every corner, they never used overtake energy or anything, the gearbox is thought to be a problem but it is not the main one; Among other things, it is said that they had to modify the gearbox at the last minute to make it work with a new Honda anti-lag system. That is, currently, as stated, Honda is really late.


Then you say that the correlation didn't work, I remember that since he came in and they made the first updates to the amr25 (few because they were dedicating themselves to this year),they had the correlation and in fact they finished 2025 on the rise, in Abu Dhabi they were behind the Mercedes.


My idea was that if Honda made a competitive engine, they could be up there fighting, not the best, but competitive yes. Then I will be wrong or right, this is my idea
I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just stating facts and figures. And some of what you say is simply not true or doesn't work that way. And that's what I'm addressing. Take your analysis of performance, for example.

A direct comparison of the last three years shows a clear downward spiral in Aston Martin's performance. While the team was still the sensation of the season in 2023 with the AMR23, regularly placing Fernando Alonso in the first two rows of the grid and securing eight podium finishes, the 2024 season saw the beginning of a gradual decline from the top group. In this transitional year, the team mostly slipped to 6th to 10th place in qualifying and failed to secure a single podium finish over the entire distance, laboriously maintaining its position as the fifth force in the midfield.
This trend intensified massively in the 2025 season: Qualifying performance collapsed to such an extent that both drivers were often eliminated in Q2, and starting positions between 11th and 15th became the new reality. While Alonso was still fighting for victories in 2023, a fifth place in Hungary was the absolute maximum in 2025, with the team even failing to score any points in many races. In summary, Aston Martin has shrunk from a genuine Red Bull challenger in 2023 to a team that struggled to even compete with smaller private teams in the top 10 in 2025. In the midst of this technical crisis, it did not help the team that Mercedes claimed during the development of an engine that the FIA had already approved it – an uncertainty that made planning even more difficult.
In the last third of the 2025 season, this image of a team in transition solidified, with results stagnating almost exclusively in the lower midfield. In qualifying for the last seven races, Fernando Alonso and Lance Stroll rarely made it to Q3; typical starting positions were in the range of 12 to 16, with Alonso limiting the damage in Brazil and Abu Dhabi with 9th and 10th places. This lack of basic speed was reflected in the races themselves: while the team finished just outside the points in Las Vegas and Qatar with 11th and 13th places, Alonso's 10th place at the season finale in Abu Dhabi marked the only points scored in the entire last third of the season. Lance Stroll, on the other hand, ended the season with a series of finishes between 14th and 17th, which made it clear that the team struggled in the end and that there was no sign of an upward trend.

Regarding correlation—Newey himself says that there are problems here, Mike Krack acknowledges the other problems ("there are shortcomings in all areas"), and problems with the chassis and engine were recently identified and "published" by Honda.

I am not trying to convince you in any way. Its simply about presenting the facts correctly.

Andi76
Andi76
473
Joined: 03 Feb 2021, 20:19

Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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zoroastar wrote:
03 Mar 2026, 08:22
Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 19:54
Leon Kennedy wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 15:15


If you provide sources for what you say about these issues, you'll be doing everyone a favor😂. Regarding the rear, I don't see the problems you listed, rather I see problems at the front, but in my opinion they are due to the fact that they haven't touched the car at all regarding the setup. Regarding the gearbox, it's a problem we noticed during the videos, but no one has made an official statement about it. The only reported problem so far is the engine, according to Honda. Lobato himself also stated that Newey says he's absolutely fine with the aero/chassis side of things.

Then okay about the Redbull 2007 comparison, you already know my opinion objectively we are in two completely different worlds, a team that was born that year and that did not have any structure capable of competing Aston Martin, on the other hand, has the best facilities in F1 and has already had previous seasons, such as the eight podiums in 2023 without Newey. Not to mention the names that have passed through this team.

If it goes badly, that's another story.
Posting sources for something that has already been said in F1 TV broadcasts and numerous media outlets? Or where a simple Google search would suffice? I don't think that's my responsibility, especially since the sources, namely the team itself, were mentioned in the aforementioned media outlets. Mike Krack, for example, confirms the problems with the gearbox and suspension and in virtually all areas:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mike-krac ... f1-testing

Especially since these things quickly get around in the paddock and there is usually some truth to them. And according to Honda, the vibration problem goes much deeper and is probably not caused by the engine itself:

https://www.autohebdof1.com/news/f1/Hon ... artin.html

Newey also said recently that they are four months behind...not that he is satisfied with the aero/chassis side. He said "confident."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/newey-re ... evelopment

But what is he supposed to say—that everything is crap? A disaster? Everyone can see that anyway. Furthermore, Newey also admitted that there were problems with the overall package.

This is all clear evidence that speaks for itself. Namely, that it's not working at AM yet. If it were, there wouldn't be such huge problems everywhere, as Mike Krack confirms.

But you're welcome to keep talking yourself into believing otherwise, that honestly comes across more like denying the facts out of desperation. Because the facts speak for themselves. And just because Aston Martin had a reasonably good year in 2023 doesn't mean they're there yet, especially since 2024 and 2025 painted a completely different picture, with hundreds of updates that didn't work and the team getting worse rather than better. This doesn't come out of nowhere, but clearly demonstrates problems with correlation and other issues. The points in 2023 (280), 2024 (243), and 2025 (89) also show a clear downward trend. And you don't judge a team based on something that happened three years ago. Three years is an eternity in F1, but where you were last year is what counts. Last year, Aston Martin was in 7th place with only 89 points and updates that didn't work.

All this speaks volumes, because with a team at the level you claim, things like this don't happen, because there are reasons for things like this. We actually live in two worlds—me in reality and in a world that has been involved with F1 for 42 years. You in the world that desparately just wants Newey to put his best foot forward and suddenly, overnight, a world championship car comes out. But that's not how F1 works, and is currently being proven once again (see Krack's statements – problems everywhere, gearbox, Honda – engine/chassis interaction, etc.) – but these are precisely the things that don't happen at top-level teams that work this way – see Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, which produce an engine-chassis unit that runs smoothly and not something thats according to Mike Krack from Aston Martin "has problems everywhere".
if they installed a mercedes engine in the back of it they wouldve probably run hundreds of more laps at full power by now. all the honda fans are trying to micro analyze this situation into a newey problem, an aston martin problem or a gearbox problem. honda need to get with the program and stop jumping in and out of the sport every time the weather changes. that would probably go a long way toward not embarressing themselves every time a new engine has to be designed.
You're definitely hitting the nail on the head with some of your points. Honda's "inconsistency" certainly plays a part and is one of its major weaknesses. But to make Honda the sole scapegoat and say, "Wow, Newey has built the perfect car!" If only the engine weren't absolute rubbish, AM would be right up there at the front – that's not right either. Because there are weaknesses in areas other than the engine. As I said in another comment, Mike Krack confirms problems "all over the place," clearly stating that this is about much more than just the engine. The gearbox is a known and acknowledged problem (which is not surprising when you build a gearbox yourself for the first time in years, you simply have a technological backlog), as is wind tunnel correlation (Newey himself, as well as the 2025 season, whose ineffective updates have made this more than obvious), simulator (also Newey himself), and voices in the paddock are now talking about inadequate aerodynamics, and there are rumors of problems with stiffness and integration (problems that could all be logical consequences of already acknowledged problems). And history alone proves that a team, despite all the talent that has been added, first has to come together in order to function properly – whether it's Ferrari from 1997-2000, Red Bull from 2006-2009 or Mercedes from 2010 to 2013 – and Aston Martin will be no exception here. So while you are right about Honda, there are certainly other acknowledged problems and rumors of problems that seem very plausible as a result. The engine alone is definitely not to blame for everything. And the claim that a Mercedes engine would make the car "perform" is, in view of what it is, just that – a claim. Sure, it would perform better, yes. But it couldn't get any worse, because so far it has been a complete disaster, the likes of which has not been seen in F1 for a long time. And I don't think "Honda fans" want to make it a Newey problem. In fact, it's exactly the opposite—namely, Newey fans want to make it purely a Honda problem. And they say how great the car is, without a single piece of evidence to back it up... despite the acknowledged problems outside the engine from people like Krack
and clues from Newey himself (aerodynamic deficit, simulator, correlation).

basti313
basti313
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Joined: 22 Feb 2014, 14:49

Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Guys, your full text quotes where you agree each time to disagree and still post pages are annoying to scroll...
zoroastar wrote:
03 Mar 2026, 08:22


if they installed a mercedes engine in the back of it they wouldve probably run hundreds of more laps at full power by now.
Well, at least that was what we can compare to BAR-Honda: The Honda engine was not the problem in 2007.
zoroastar wrote:
03 Mar 2026, 08:22
all the honda fans are trying to micro analyze this situation into a newey problem, an aston martin problem or a gearbox problem.
Well...no one knows this, right? They ran a detuned engine which certainly messes up all behavior on track. No one here can judge if anything else of the car is good or bad.
But it seems like what we can say for sure is that the organization is messed up. Seems like they are the only team not having a full car on a sim.
zoroastar wrote:
03 Mar 2026, 08:22
honda need to get with the program and stop jumping in and out of the sport every time the weather changes. that would probably go a long way toward not embarressing themselves every time a new engine has to be designed.
Yes, that is comparable again. Honda jumping in for BAR with funny ideas like the earth dream car and then jumping ship...just to come back a few years later unprepared. Then jumping out again just to loose all personal to come back again a year later...
Don`t russel the hamster!

Leon Kennedy
Leon Kennedy
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Joined: 22 Jan 2026, 18:55

Re: Is Aston Martin BAR all over again ?

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Andi76 wrote:
03 Mar 2026, 13:28
Leon Kennedy wrote:
02 Mar 2026, 16:10
Andi76 wrote:
28 Feb 2026, 19:54


Posting sources for something that has already been said in F1 TV broadcasts and numerous media outlets? Or where a simple Google search would suffice? I don't think that's my responsibility, especially since the sources, namely the team itself, were mentioned in the aforementioned media outlets. Mike Krack, for example, confirms the problems with the gearbox and suspension and in virtually all areas:

https://www.planetf1.com/news/mike-krac ... f1-testing

Especially since these things quickly get around in the paddock and there is usually some truth to them. And according to Honda, the vibration problem goes much deeper and is probably not caused by the engine itself:

https://www.autohebdof1.com/news/f1/Hon ... artin.html

Newey also said recently that they are four months behind...not that he is satisfied with the aero/chassis side. He said "confident."

https://www.gpblog.com/en/news/newey-re ... evelopment

But what is he supposed to say—that everything is crap? A disaster? Everyone can see that anyway. Furthermore, Newey also admitted that there were problems with the overall package.

This is all clear evidence that speaks for itself. Namely, that it's not working at AM yet. If it were, there wouldn't be such huge problems everywhere, as Mike Krack confirms.

But you're welcome to keep talking yourself into believing otherwise, that honestly comes across more like denying the facts out of desperation. Because the facts speak for themselves. And just because Aston Martin had a reasonably good year in 2023 doesn't mean they're there yet, especially since 2024 and 2025 painted a completely different picture, with hundreds of updates that didn't work and the team getting worse rather than better. This doesn't come out of nowhere, but clearly demonstrates problems with correlation and other issues. The points in 2023 (280), 2024 (243), and 2025 (89) also show a clear downward trend. And you don't judge a team based on something that happened three years ago. Three years is an eternity in F1, but where you were last year is what counts. Last year, Aston Martin was in 7th place with only 89 points and updates that didn't work.

All this speaks volumes, because with a team at the level you claim, things like this don't happen, because there are reasons for things like this. We actually live in two worlds—me in reality and in a world that has been involved with F1 for 42 years. You in the world that desparately just wants Newey to put his best foot forward and suddenly, overnight, a world championship car comes out. But that's not how F1 works, and is currently being proven once again (see Krack's statements – problems everywhere, gearbox, Honda – engine/chassis interaction, etc.) – but these are precisely the things that don't happen at top-level teams that work this way – see Red Bull, Mercedes, Ferrari, which produce an engine-chassis unit that runs smoothly and not something thats according to Mike Krack from Aston Martin "has problems everywhere".
I don't understand why you speak as if you are trying to convince someone, when we can simply talk and have our opinions.

That said, I agree that when paddock voices converge, there is some truth to it. I don't think Aston Martin went to Melbourne and would have finished first and second. I simply look at things from a 360-degree perspective and Aston Martin was already an important team before Newey's arrival, Briatore himself declared that Newey had not taken Alpine into consideration because he didn't find it competitive. This makes me believe that he saw enormous untapped potential in Aston Martin. He is an engineer who, in addition to aerodynamics, knows other systems very well, such as mechanics and integration with the engine. Clearly, on paper, he makes you make a leap in quality.
Regarding the problems they are having with the car, they haven't even adjusted the setup at the moment, they don't even know if the aero and chassis are OK, They were constantly running 2k rpm less than the others in every corner, they never used overtake energy or anything, the gearbox is thought to be a problem but it is not the main one; Among other things, it is said that they had to modify the gearbox at the last minute to make it work with a new Honda anti-lag system. That is, currently, as stated, Honda is really late.


Then you say that the correlation didn't work, I remember that since he came in and they made the first updates to the amr25 (few because they were dedicating themselves to this year),they had the correlation and in fact they finished 2025 on the rise, in Abu Dhabi they were behind the Mercedes.


My idea was that if Honda made a competitive engine, they could be up there fighting, not the best, but competitive yes. Then I will be wrong or right, this is my idea
I'm not trying to convince you, I'm just stating facts and figures. And some of what you say is simply not true or doesn't work that way. And that's what I'm addressing. Take your analysis of performance, for example.

A direct comparison of the last three years shows a clear downward spiral in Aston Martin's performance. While the team was still the sensation of the season in 2023 with the AMR23, regularly placing Fernando Alonso in the first two rows of the grid and securing eight podium finishes, the 2024 season saw the beginning of a gradual decline from the top group. In this transitional year, the team mostly slipped to 6th to 10th place in qualifying and failed to secure a single podium finish over the entire distance, laboriously maintaining its position as the fifth force in the midfield.
This trend intensified massively in the 2025 season: Qualifying performance collapsed to such an extent that both drivers were often eliminated in Q2, and starting positions between 11th and 15th became the new reality. While Alonso was still fighting for victories in 2023, a fifth place in Hungary was the absolute maximum in 2025, with the team even failing to score any points in many races. In summary, Aston Martin has shrunk from a genuine Red Bull challenger in 2023 to a team that struggled to even compete with smaller private teams in the top 10 in 2025. In the midst of this technical crisis, it did not help the team that Mercedes claimed during the development of an engine that the FIA had already approved it – an uncertainty that made planning even more difficult.
In the last third of the 2025 season, this image of a team in transition solidified, with results stagnating almost exclusively in the lower midfield. In qualifying for the last seven races, Fernando Alonso and Lance Stroll rarely made it to Q3; typical starting positions were in the range of 12 to 16, with Alonso limiting the damage in Brazil and Abu Dhabi with 9th and 10th places. This lack of basic speed was reflected in the races themselves: while the team finished just outside the points in Las Vegas and Qatar with 11th and 13th places, Alonso's 10th place at the season finale in Abu Dhabi marked the only points scored in the entire last third of the season. Lance Stroll, on the other hand, ended the season with a series of finishes between 14th and 17th, which made it clear that the team struggled in the end and that there was no sign of an upward trend.

Regarding correlation—Newey himself says that there are problems here, Mike Krack acknowledges the other problems ("there are shortcomings in all areas"), and problems with the chassis and engine were recently identified and "published" by Honda.

I am not trying to convince you in any way. Its simply about presenting the facts correctly.
If we are to listen to the voices of the paddock, there are many theories: Some say there is a problem with the gearbox, some say the chassis is too extreme, some say Newey declared that Honda cannot recover 250kW, Some say the problem is vibrations, others say the front suspension, and still others say the gearbox problem is due to a recently introduced anti-lag system by Honda.
In short, too many voices say the opposite of everything.


If we are to rely on and stick to the official statements: Honda has stated that it is behind with the ICE and that Newey has requested the two-stage battery. Krack has stated that there are problems throughout the car but also saying that there are many "small" problems that pop up here and there. The truth is that nothing was tested, they officially stated that they didn't adjust the car in any way. Honda literally ran out of every single spare part, we don't know if aerodynamically the car is good because it barely managed to get on the track, they were running with the revs cut, that is, things that were unbearable Honda messed up big time, and I sincerely hope they can fix their problems. We can't judge Aston Martin if they don't even have an engine that can finish a race distance.


Regarding your 2025 considerations, I don't know where you got those rankings, but Alonso in Qatar finished seventh ahead of the Ferraris and in Abu Dhabi sixth ahead of a Mercedes and a Ferrari. All this after Newey arrived in Qatar and fixed the car's settings.

However, for me the comparison with Bar is a bit relative, Aston Martin has spent much more both on structures and engineers. I would compare it in terms of expenditure to what Toyota has done rather