10000 rpm only!?!?!

[Ian P.]

Some quick numbers for Mad-Max's version of the future....

Current 2.4 F1 engines, BMEP is around 120 psi for 850 BHP at 19k rpm
Proposed 2.2 with 2.0 BAR boost would be 820 BHP at 10k rpm
Extend this to a realistic 2.5 BAR boost.... 1025 BHP at 10k rpm.

Either Mad-Max is going to have to limit engine boost or cut the size of the engines (or both). With road cars going to higher boost he will be caught since the goal is to try and tie F1 closer to the "normal" world.

Road cars with turbos seem to be disapearing. VW and Subaru are the only ones that come to mind for common production cars. Bin there, done that and don't really like it.

Bottom line Max.... it won't work. Seems one new regulation spawns 6 additional regs. just to curtail the inventiveness of te designers.

[sebbe]

Saab make good turbo engines too!

[mx_tifoso]

Road cars with turbos seem to be disapearing. VW and Subaru are the only ones that come to mind for common production cars.

You are forgetting the most recent turbo engine BMW has produced, the 3.0 Litre Twin Turbo engine. This engine serves duty in both the 3-series and the 5-series. And it has actually won many awards this year for best engine, and most critics seem to enjoy it even though it is TT. Output figures as follows; 300 hp @ 5800 RPM, 300 lb-ft @ 1400-5000 RPM.
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/articles/engine_2007.asp

Even though I have mentioned the above, I dont condone smaller turbocharged engines in Formula1. I am ok with the current 2.4 V8 engine powering todays cars, anything smaller I would not appreciate, especially if it only revs to 10,000 RPM. They would sound just like any old road car that has a turbo under the bonnet. Ridiculous I tell you!

We/they should send Mad Max into exile for good!

[Tom]

sebbe wrote

Saab make good turbo engines too!

they also make a mean Turbo Compound engine

If anyone wants more info I have a diagram somewhere I can dig up and upload.

[Fan Solo]

Hmmm, is bio fuel the right choice?
http://environment.newscientist.com/cha ... fuels.html

Personally I think F1 needs to be loud & 10000 rpm aint gonna give that same body shredding noise

Push to pass, adds a bit to the spectacle as no doubt TV would cut to the drivers who were 'on boost' so to speak, should induce some interesting overtaking, especially when back on slicks.

4WD? road relevant I guess, maybe Audi may pay a visit to F1 too which would be cool:) Quattro F1 hehe.

Restricting aero to me is going a bit far. Loads of money has been spent on tunnels here & there and why waste them? I also think spotting new trick bits etc is a big part of the enjoyment for the more attentive fan.

There is no doubt changes have to be made & hey, a Megane F1 edition production car for instance would actually have F1 tech and not just a sticker & LSD to make it special hehe, thats cool for both manufacturers & customers alike

[modbaraban]

4WD? road relevant I guess, maybe Audi may pay a visit to F1 too which would be cool:) Quattro F1 hehe.

...also blue Imreza F1-11 and red F1Evo

[mx_tifoso]

Further mooted proposals include cars to be fitted with traction control, four-wheel drive and a 13-second-per-lap, driver controlled, power-boost function in a bid to aid overtaking.

What is the point to take away TC for 2008 and then re-introduce it in 2011?

And 4WD, what are they thinking

The change to V8's from V10's wasnt bad, but from 12>10>8>6! That is just to far for me/most people. Max is forgetting the tradition of Formula 1, he doesnt recall the monstrous V12's from back at the beggining of Grand Prix racing.

Mosley is taking all of this "futuristic, earth friendly" stuff too far.

This is sad news for F1.

[Sawtooth-spike]

he wont do it!!!! ...... I hope

It all sounds abit mickey mouse to me, I like the engine change, other than the rev limiter and the 5 Races per engine!!! 5, thats currently about a 3rd of a seasons, if it was this year it would have to do Oz, malasis, Barain, spain and monaco. Thats just silly, Cant we please go back to one engine per weekend, that was a great rule, an engine for every other race sucks cus people are always looking after there engine for the next race. Each race should be an event on it own!!!!

GRRRRR

Come back GPMA!

Can anybody tell me, Does max actualy like F1?

[Tom]

Don't worry, Mad Max is on his last term, hopefully he'll be replaced by someone with the enthusiasts, drivers and eco-friendlies at heart to reach a compramise between sport, safety and enviromental issues.

I think Max is realising this is his last chance to change F1 so he's doing as much as he can and it'll destroy the sport. Frankly he should be kicked in the shins till his eyes water by each of us. Seems like an unjust punishment though. Obviously the big guys spend alot of time trying to claw in new audiences and their money, which is why we're moving East, yet if F1 goes to 10k, with TC, identical bodywork etc I'm gonna stop watching, I'm gonna stop participating in his ego trip and hopefully I won't be alone.

He's very like his farther isn't he?

[Ian P.]

With 800+ multi turbo power, the torque curve will be flat from 6000 rpm up. You will need TC and 4WD just to keep it on the track. Remember also that M-M was proposing lowering the minimum weight to reduce cost. Darn balast is soooo expensive.
As for Bio Fuels.... I recently sat in on a presentation from one of the technical VPs of Toyota. Awesome.
His observation and the position of Toyota is that Bio fuels will never be more than a cottage industry. The water requirement to grow and refine them is enormous and not sustainable.
This is one business that should die on the vine (you know....the one growing over the political fence)

[m3_lover]

There are alot of car companies that use turbo's in there production cars in North America
Mazda 2.3L Direct Injection Turbo
Pontiac Solstice GXP 2.0 L Turbo
Porsche 911 Turbo (3.6 Twin Turbo)
Mercedes Benz B200 2.0 L Turbo
Dodge Nitro/Caliber SRT 2.4 L Turbo

So there are companies that use turbo's in non-diesel applications. In North America it is predicted that there will be more cars with Diesel, I believe 15 percent of the market in of cars in North America will be equipped with Diesel engines. Audi and Peugeot use Diesels in there racing programs, so why not in F1?

Sawtooth spike mentioned that each race should be there own in regards to engine reliability. But before the engine change rules, Teams would introduce new engines at each practice and change them for a new engine for qualifying. That is not cost effective to have so many engines that will be used so little of the time. Wouldn't the introduction of improving engine reliability be a wonderful task for engineerings to work on ?

The last thing is a question, DTM in the 90's, did it not go bankrupt because of spiraling costs ? And with are not all DTM cars now have the same bodywork like Nascar and Aussie V8 (could be wrong about the Aussie thing) ?

Again no personal attacks just stated my opinion, I like to hear some other opinions for and against

[Sawtooth-spike]

Yeah they had quaili engines and so on. I was saying one engine per weekend. My main bug bare is the fact that the problems one race effect the next race.

[ds.raikkonen]

Can anybody tell me, Does max actualy like F1?

From the looks of it..I seriously doubt it...he s ruining F1, and god knows why? has he got a grudge against it or what? V6 in F1? thats stupid, im lost for words really? Greener F1? Many engines in this wide world are produving more CO2,NOx together per year than F1 has done in the past decade...whats the use of making Formula1, the greatest motorsport the world has ever known, slower and greener?I even hated the switch from the glorious sounding V10 to V8s...given the leap in modern science and technology, F1 should be going faster than it is now, bcoz they can handle it with all the gizmos in the racers...words cannot express the stupidity of Mosley

[enkidu]

Road cars with turbos seem to be disapearing. VW and Subaru are the only ones that come to mind for common production cars. Bin there, done that and don't really like it.

Bottom line Max.... it won't work. Seems one new regulation spawns 6 additional regs. just to curtail the inventiveness of te designers.

Road cars with turbos are not disapearing!

In the UK we have loads.... Vauxhall Astra VXR, Ford Focus ST, VW Golf Gti, Subaru Impreza, Evo's, Seat Cupra R's. Thats just some!!

Going back to turbo cars will be great IMO. Also the cars will still be loud, the more boost you run the bigger bang the more gasses flowing out the exhausts. 770 bhp v6 turbo will sound great IMO. It will be just as loud but a deeper richer sound....

[siskue2005]

Going back to turbo cars will be great IMO. Also the cars will still be loud, the more boost you run the bigger bang the more gasses flowing out the exhausts. 770 bhp v6 turbo will sound great IMO. It will be just as loud but a deeper richer sound....

yeah they will sound good, BUT THE 5 GP per ENGINE Really is STUPID!!!! ....WE will see drivers cruise and cruise and cruise just to save an Stupid engine, We would see teams changing engines on purpose in and get a really good advantage on others!