Say no to Chinese GP!

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fenix4life
fenix4life
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Joined: 15 Mar 2008, 10:32

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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Bernie will never boycott something with something he can fill his pocket with.
I think you won't receive more then just some phrases from some riders which will talk about the current situation.

Boycott or no boycott won't change a thing.

zidane13
zidane13
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Joined: 22 Sep 2006, 02:58

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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i don't think people will listen for boycotting the chinese GP... even there are voices asking to strip off Chinese GP from the F1 calendar. Bernie won't do this... as he greeds more for money...

probably he said,"lets forget the political view and enjoy the show!". Melbourne under fire as they refuse to organise night race as the stupid reason,"european fans have to wake early in the morning to watch the show"

Agree for Boycotting Chinese GP!!!!

nae
nae
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Joined: 29 Mar 2006, 00:56

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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there is an argument that says that if you treat china with respect and
show them the road to 'our way of thinking' that they will 'mature' and see
the light

a bit hokum and smoke and mirrors but it does have some merit

there is a counter argument that says that welcoming china to the international
fold in such a way only encourages them to believe they are not in the wrong and why should they change

again unsure on that

the real truth is they have resources and a cheap workforce that we (in the west) can exploit and make cash from

the only real form of action worth taking (yourself) is to write to your local elected representative, you national auto racing club, max and bernie and express your disapproval (like that will work)

so all in all
i dont know
..?

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HKS
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Joined: 05 Mar 2007, 06:37

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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Bernie won't ban it as China allows Tobacco sponsors.
And he would put a stop to the Chinese GP if he gets a chance to penetrate into a deeper market.

Mind you people in the Shanghai city itself(where the track is located) aren't quiet aware what F1 is.

India is definitely a way bigger market for F1 and I'm dead sure no one would ask to boycott the Indian GP (starting in 2010) because India is the world's biggest democracy. :) :) :)
Racing cars are neither beautiful nor ugly, they are beautiful only when you win races.

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Ray
2
Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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Not only should it be boycotted because of the Tibetan situation, the track is absolute crap. I say boycott the Chinese GP and Herman Tilke.

mahesh248
mahesh248
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Joined: 05 Mar 2007, 12:05
Location: India

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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The scene is bad , i dont know why china is doing this thing to lama,s .. they are scared people , harmless and very peace loving .. Very sad ... Yeah the whole world should go agaist this ..

GianlucaZ19
GianlucaZ19
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Joined: 23 Jan 2007, 06:49

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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manchild wrote:Peaceful, unarmed people of Tibet...[/b]
http://www.abc.net.au/news/video/2008/03/19/2194655.htm

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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I looked at this

topic and was very conflicted about participating in the discussion. Yes, there is outrage about the fate of the Tibetan people and culture. Especially the diaspora has acted recently, trying to use the "Olympic issue" as leverage.

Mostly, the response from the "free" governments has been appalling, especially the self-appointed "Global Purveyor of Freedom and Democracy" George W. Bush was quick to disassociate the games and the latest violations from each other. Moscow, in a cynically self-serving statement sided with the Chinese, equally worried about their own territorial viability. India has arrested scores of protesters. The first comments from the IOC were muted at best. I haven't even searched for FIA's opinions as none have been reported and they will feel under no pressure to offer any given the dismal precedents.

The Tibetan people were no doubt realistic about the chances and risks involved in raising the issue of self-governance again, but chose to do so anyway knowing full well that part of the cost would be measured in lives. Tibet, and the adjoining provinces, are now closed to "foreign" media. Reporters have been threatened, arrested and efforts have been made to confiscate any and all material recorded in the area: Notably this has happened to journalists whose accreditation has been completely in order. Nonetheless, the scale of the Tibetan sacrifice in calling for basic human rights will become evident someday.

Part of the violence (and casualties) has also befallen the Han Chinese in Tibetan areas. This is also unacceptable, no matter what propaganda value for the Chinese government their fates might carry. As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing wrong with organised social and political action (the Chinese government has vilified anything even remotely resembling that, trying to avoid any forms of negotiations with the Tibetans themselves, no matter what the benefit and use might be), civil disobedience and such. But attacking individuals for their symbol value is wrong. Notably, the Dalai Lama has threatened to resign from his post as the leader of the exiled Tibetans if the violence continues, a sign of the gravity in which he views the issue of any violence.

Which brings me back to Manchild's fire and fury in calling for a "boycott" of some sort regarding the Chinese GP of 2008 and beyond. First, it's my opinion that while shock tactics do grab attention, they can also make the casual observer despondent and inactive - people who only experience Tibetan affairs through mass media will not resort to writing protest notes in their spare time. Second, it is not China but the Chinese government's actions that we're supposed to protest against, right? That's an important distinction. The majority of Chinese Communist Party subjects do not have a say in this and there's no reason to hurt or alienate them on account of something that they have nothing to do with, nor are properly informed about.

Third, the "fascist comparison" is lame and ultimately fallacious to self-defeating, not least because that comparison has been used time and again by the leaders of both the USA and the former USSR in "selling" divisive politics, new conflicts and wars to their respective peoples. The Soviet communists routinely called every democracy and/or free market economy "fascist" and almost every adversary the US has chosen to go to war against has been likened to Hitler at some point. Those aren't good precedents at all. Fourth (but not least), listen to the Tibetans. They're the ones this is all about, not anyone else. They will know what helps them and what doesn't.

So, given the above, if Manchild wishes to organise something meaningful I have the following ideas to offer (subject to consideration, improvements and alterations as needed):

1) The simple option for the "everyman": A well publicised web petition (numbers count) in which people can declare that they will not watch the Chinese GP on TV/online this year as a way of expressing concern for the plight of Tibet. This petition should be closed on the eve of the race weekend and results delivered to FOM, FIA and every TV channel carrying the race, as well as news organisations such as Reuters and BBC (who should be notified as soon as the petition starts) who supply news around the World and will not be intimidated by things such as losing F1 accreditation. This will propably require some well placed volunteers to "beat the drum".

2) The "armchair activist" option: A web petition/group action, in which people can declare that they'll enjoy watching the race, but for the sole purpose of preorganised volunteers in different countries recording every advertiser (supporting the broadcast, teams, or race) associated with the GP, assembling a list to be published online and then boycotting the products on that list for a set period (say, two weeks is plenty before putting associated - and innocent - workers through too much hardship, but perhaps affecting profit margins and public relations) the best they can. This should also be made known for FOM, FIA and the above kinds of news organisations.

3) The first test of "Racing Against Racism": As language, culture and ethnicity define this longstanding crisis, it is only proper that the Tibetans themselves be informed about this program and the Chinese GP as a possible additional focal point in their campaign. This should be done ASAP. The Tibetans themselves are best positioned to consider the implications and fit the tactics with their overall strategy. Most likely any such stance should be apolitical and only concentrate on the human rights violations based on ethnicity. (As the "launch" is only due at Spain - perhaps the Tibetans could co-ordinate with local anti-racist and human rights organisations.) It could also carry a positive element, such as a display of what makes the Tibetan culture unique and valuable. Perhaps even a playful exercise in considering what Buddhism and racing have in common ...

What you can do is raise the issue with the Tibetan exile organisations, preferrably with those with most reach - and I can only imagine this would present an attractive option of engagement as the FIA and all the teams have unequivocally thrown their weight behind the program already. The issue should not only be (publicly) raised with the FIA alone, but also the human rights organisations and such they're consulting in constructing the project - in case the FIA felt the urge to single the Tibetan case out as "not racist". I think at least some experts that are running the "Kick It Out" campaign in football are involved.

Kick It Out
FIA to launch 'Racing Against Racism'
Teams applaud FIA anti-racism campaign
Racing Against Racism

4) Again, last but not least: Research what is being done already, even in cursory fashion, and only then decide whether you can do more through highlighting what Formula One has to do socially, politically, economically and geographically with all this. Manchild might well have the tenacity and "fire in the belly" to act as a catalyst in this, though I also hope that any action can be taken with no (or the least possible amount of) conflict with everyone's general interest. Of course we're all at liberty to decide on what we're willing to put on the line for this, but the ultimate object is self-evidently for the Tibetans (and everyone else) being able to live another day in freedom - and the actions should reflect that.

The real test, in many a sense, is how many friends remain with the Tibetans when the latest tragedy has subsided. Yes, this is the time to apply pressure but the Chinese Communist Party will not be intimidated by the power politics as such - they understand and dominate that. It is what they don't (or can't) understand that will catch them off guard. They're deeply at odds with the virtual World and the positive aspects of individualism. As much as the plight of Tibetans sorely needs to be addressed, we need to do positive things with and for both the Chinese and the Tibetans. Perhaps therein we can expose the conflict for the dark, misguided fantasy it is and eventually make its nonexistence part of our collective reality again.

So there, just free flowing thought, hopefully applicable in some form. Just listing my immediate impressions seemed to take some doing.

Edit:
The Dalai Lama, official website
Tibetan Government in Exile, official website
Last edited by checkered on 20 Mar 2008, 20:56, edited 1 time in total.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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I'm sorry Tomba but despite all our friendship I have to say that moving this to off topic is a sign of your disrespect to me but most of all to suffering of Tibetans caused by a country that hosts an F1 GP!

It has everything to do with F1 since it is a topic about organizer of an official F1 2008 Chinese GP and there are dead bodies by the hand of GP organizer Tomba! Unarmed civilians killed by GP organizer!

Would you put "Say no to Belgian GP" topic in off topic if Belgian government was massively killing citizens of Belgium, members of your family, friends and countryman?

If you'll treat Chinese GP like any other one regardless what China is doing in Tibet than I have to say that you've fallen very low in my eyes. I'm certainly not going to be a member on forum that allows a lot of irrelevant things, I'd say total crap in General chat but not the appeal for boycott of an F1 GP based on the fact that innocent people are being killed by F1 GP organizer, officially in that same country, completely legally!

You have the choice to stand on the side of those killed ones and those who are yet to be killed and tortured or on the side of those who order their killings and who are hosting GP.

Make a choice or at least be neutral!

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joseff
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Joined: 24 Sep 2002, 11:53

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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@manchild: you obviously have strong feelings towards the issue. But I'm going to say Tomba is right here. Unless Tibetan slaves are being used to construct or marshal the track, the Tibet issue is totally unrelated to F1. If the People's Liberation Army is using 2001 Arrows chassis to run down Tibetan horsemen, it's relevant to F1. Otherwise, it's obviously off-topic.

Boycotting chinese products is a great idea. Unfortunately that means tossing away your laptop and modem.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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I have a "strong feelings" and you just don't give a sh*t about suffering caused by organizers of GP you're going to watch laid back in comfortable chair? No, my feelings are not to strong, they are normal but I think yours are hardly noticeable. People of Tibet are occupied and yes they slave away their life under government who organizes this GP.

How can you be such inhuman hypocrites and close your eyes on what is going on there and treat normally GP organized by Chinese murderous? You don't care because it's not your life endangered, right? Your family and countryman don't suffer so you raise your glass for a toast together with those red fascists who are hosting a GP in China, right?

There's a saying from Nazi Germany. "When they came to take away my neighbor who was communist I said nothing. When they came to take away my neighbor who was a Jew I said nothing, when they came to take me away there was no one left to say a thing".

Don't be surprised when no one says a thing when someone comes to take you away.

I should have made a poll, if majority will really watch Chinese GP like it is the one from Monaco than I have strong urge to say F word to all of such people once and for all.

Chinese government is totalitarian one and it organizes F1 GP. It also kills Tibetans and other citizens of China. For those who don't see how that is related to F1 which is a sport, a multinational, free one, than they're either dumb or selfish pricks.

How come talk about organizers regarding money, politics, affairs, scandals etc. is related to F1 but when GP organizers commit mass murders than it isn't related to F1? What cruel idiot would it take to accept that?

Someone feels offended by what I wrote? Go ahead. Shoot at me. I'm not writing this for myself, I don't care at all, I have no personal value in banning of Chinese GP but unlike some I feel a moral obligation to raise my voice for the sake of those innocent people whose voice can't be heard since your beloved Chinese GP organizers are killing them without presence of media.

I don't give a sh*t what any of you will think of me, my moral and human dignity tell me to stand against those crimes and when I go to bed I sleep peacefully and I'll die with the peace of mind.

Unlike me and many other people worldwide I think some of you have no conscience and human compassion at all, you care only about yourself and selfishly refuse to be human in the spiritual meaning of that word even when it requires no risk for you.

You think that your watching of Chinese GP is more important than life of those who are being killed, you think that F1 *ucking race of 1.5 hours is more important than effect of boycott could have in forcing China to back off from killings in Tibet? Is that so? What are you than? Humans, no. Animals, no. None of those two would trade less than 2 hours of fun on TV for someones life.

I really don't mean to offend anyone decent here but let me address to others regardless on consequences on me;

All of you who see no problem in fact that Chinese F1 GP organizers are committing mass murders of civilians as we speak, all of you are complete bustards and lowlife pricks.

Now, feel offended as much as you like. My conscience is clean.

My apologies for the language I've used to decent people, it was nothing compared to what those who don't care and in that way support killings deserve.

mcdenife
mcdenife
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Joined: 05 Nov 2004, 13:21
Location: Timbuck2

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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I don't give a sh*t what any of you will think of me, my moral and human dignity tell me to stand against those crimes and when I go to bed I sleep peacefully and I'll die with the peace of mind.
Well manchild, who died and made you god, to decide how/when any of us decide or not to make a stand and more importantly what stand we choose (or not) to make?

You choose to make a stand, fine, but its not up to you to decide or force this forum and all its participants to take your stance or to judge us when/if us dont. If you wanna do something, do something that will trully make a difference but please enough of the drama.

Oh, and as long as the chinese grand prix is still on, I shall be watching.
Long experience has taught me this about the status of mankind with regards to matters requiring thought. The less people know and understand about them, the more positively they attempt to argue concerning them; while on the other hand, to know and understand a multitude of things renders men cautious in passing judgement upon anything new. - Galileo..

The noblest of dogs is the hot dog. It feeds the hand that bites it.

manchild
manchild
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Joined: 03 Jun 2005, 10:54

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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mcdenife wrote:You choose to make a stand, fine, but its not up to you to decide or force this forum and all its participants to take your stance or to judge us when/if us dont. If you wanna do something, do something that will trully make a difference but please enough of the drama.

Oh, and as long as the chinese grand prix is still on, I shall be watching.
There is no debate possible about mass murder crimes. You have no right to support mass murder by any international law or convention and if you do than your hands are bloody too. In many civilized countries denying mass murders and genocide is a criminal offense. Now I know there are nazi forums on the web but I hope this isn't the one. I've always said that there are racists, fascists, neo-nazis as well as other cruel, primitive and backward individuals among F1 fans too, so your post is no surprise to me.

I can't support F1 in a country who started doing this more than 50 years ago and still does it. Some of you obviously can.

Image


According to some of you Ron Dennis's divorce belongs in general chat but mass murders committed by Chinese GP organizer in 2008 don't. That tells what kind of people you are.

greene
greene
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Joined: 10 Sep 2006, 18:33
Location: Munich GER

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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Nothing will be changed by your boycott. Power speaks.

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Ray
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Joined: 22 Nov 2006, 06:33
Location: Atlanta

Re: Say no to Chinese GP!

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manchild wrote:You have no right to support mass murder by any international law or convention and if you do than your hands are bloody too.
Who here has said they support any of that? Just because you feel so strongly about it doesn't mean we don't. So please, stop acting like we are all the criminals. It says alot about you that your feelings are that we are all guilty by association.

Let me ask you this MC. What can little me, living in Columbus Georgia USA, do to some Chinese Communist moron hell bent on commiting mass murder? Send him a strongly worded email? Or maybe an internet petition that won't meant jack squat to Gen. Chinese Commie man? Or how about a strongly worded forum post like this one on his favorite site? How can I stop something that they have been doing for alot longer than 50 years when I have no power within my own government damn near, much less theirs?


And YOU have no right to come on here and DEMAND that people support your views. You need to get a grip on yourself Manchild. I respect you and your opinions even though they aren't always the same as mine, but I'll be damned to have someone preach to me over the internet. You aren't the last word in what all of us should do and say, and I'm quite amused that you automatically assume we all don't care. Great way to insult a whole forums community. Don't preach to me any more, I get enough of that --- through my media here in the States.

One more thing. What exactly are you doing about it MC?