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Interesting concept. What I don't understand is the design of ICE, KERS, and HERS.
Unrestricted KERS would almost certainly work best with AWD electric wheel hub motors that double function as KERS generators. compare the E-corner concept from Continental VDO former Siemens VDO. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLQ2-yKT4Y[/youtube]
HERS in my view would only make sense with an ICE that produces heat. I am pretty sure that an ICE will will be in F1 for quite a long time and I don't see where you have it.
HERS would most probably mean two separate systems picking up heat from the cooling fluid and another from the exhaust after kinetic energy is extracted by turbocharger. HERS will most like be an organic Rankine cycle with rotary supercharger style expander or piston expander somehow integrated with the ICE. There are research publications on such systems by Honda and BMW. You will find most of the stuff in the regeneration thread.
The ICE would require a high efficiency before HERS and will probably use the kinetic energy of the exhaust. that leads to the use of a turbocharged diesel.
If you do not use an ICE you will most likely be using a fuel cell. I'm not sure you would have much use of HERS in that case. I think they work on pretty low temps compared to ICEs.
I don't see all electric based on battery power in that time. Not with the power requirements you have for GP racing. Perhaps that is what you have in mind?
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
F1 cars need a lot more energy than road cars. they dissipate tremendous energy by drag and braking. but now I understand what you mean by heat sink.
so you have a chemical process that produces electricity and heat?
what is the total power output?
what is the electric efficiency compared to the heat.
and what is the total energy content of the charge that you can transport?
Your heat sink should be combined with a HERS (heat energy recovery system) instead of a KERS (kinetic energy recovery system). as I said the most common system would be an organic Rankine process.
And you should seriously think about the e-corner concept. that will be legal from 2011.
some figures for your energy budget:
mechanical peak power demand F1 car 600 kW
specific energy of gasoline 34.8 MJ/L
F1 consumption 75 L/100 km
GP distance 300 km
total chemical energy demand of ICE 7.83 GJ
mechanical energy demand at 28% efficiency 2,2 GJ
your heat sink needs to produce this same peak electric power including your HERS and KERS rate
your heat sink needs to produce the total 2,2 GJ electric energy incl. the recovered electric energy from HERS and KERS
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
struggling somewhat to put these in a framework whereby I could discuss the merits. This isn't a straightforward criticism (it would be inappropriate at an unfinished stage) but more like a disclaimer: My comments may not conform to your terminology nor a common enough understanding of the subject to be relevant. This is not to say that our viewpoints are mutually exclusive.
Option 1:
Seems like a fairly straightforward arrangement, not much different from the current one. You do not indicate a need for heat management (if there is one) but supposing that the thermodynamic efficiency is much higher, any "cooling" aerodynamics such as sidepods might be much less pronounced. Certainly an electric engine has no such use for an airbox as an ICE has. The KERSes are connected to the powertrain, so you might want to illustrate that. If the steering wheel has no mechanism linking it to the road, the suspension and chassis could reflect that as well. I don't know what "Nanosafe" batteries are, exactly, but if it's not central to your design, you can also just extrapolate batteries' development towards 2013 on a general level.
Option 2:
A little bit more "out there" but might echo road car development, though unsprung weight at the extremities of the vehicle represents a control dilemma at high speeds. Some of what I wrote in -Option 1- applies, I will only comment on things that are different. In a wholly electric configuration, I can imagine a hub integrated motor doubling as an energy recovery device (as WhiteBlue pointed out). Thus I'm interested in why such a dual function would be restricted to rear wheels only. Also, if the the heat and mechanical forces which can be recovered are produced almost exclusively at the wheels, where does the heat in the chassis energy recovery unit come from? Operating the battery, recaptured by thermoelectrics? Or is the heat sink precharged with thermal energy? This arrangement need not look much like a contemporary F1 car, save for the tradition.
Option 3:
No KERS = no mechanical brakes in the wheels? Using air brakes only is a radical idea, something that would most certainly force an equally drastic change in bodywork. Everything need not be road car related, but air brakes most definitely are not. This kind of a vehicle wouldn't come to its rights on a traditional circuit, but on an arcade-ish acrobatic construction, replete with impossible looking bankings and loops even. Perhaps a bit of a stretch, but then again this option had the most room for misunderstandings on my part.
As general notions, first, use the same colours to highlight the same thing in different schematics. By not abiding to a logic, you're risking confusion - you'd be surprised by what people take for granted. Also, if possible between these options, consider the relative energy densities of possible fuels/batteries/heat sinks/etc. and the specific power of the construction. All your examples are very vehicle specific and that's quite all right, if that's your assignement. In it you can reflect a certain segment of overall sustainability concerns.
"In theory there's no difference between theory and practice. In practice, there is." - Yogi Berra
WhiteBlue wrote:Interesting concept. What I don't understand is the design of ICE, KERS, and HERS.
Unrestricted KERS would almost certainly work best with AWD electric wheel hub motors that double function as KERS generators. compare the E-corner concept from Continental VDO former Siemens VDO. [youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tLQ2-yKT4Y[/youtube]
HERS in my view would only make sense with an ICE that produces heat. I am pretty sure that an ICE will will be in F1 for quite a long time and I don't see where you have it.
HERS would most probably mean two separate systems picking up heat from the cooling fluid and another from the exhaust after kinetic energy is extracted by turbocharger. HERS will most like be an organic Rankine cycle with rotary supercharger style expander or piston expander somehow integrated with the ICE. There are research publications on such systems by Honda and BMW. You will find most of the stuff in the regeneration thread.
The ICE would require a high efficiency before HERS and will probably use the kinetic energy of the exhaust. that leads to the use of a turbocharged diesel.
If you do not use an ICE you will most likely be using a fuel cell. I'm not sure you would have much use of HERS in that case. I think they work on pretty low temps compared to ICEs.
I don't see all electric based on battery power in that time. Not with the power requirements you have for GP racing. Perhaps that is what you have in mind?
Cool vid!
I personally would reduce the caliper size in half, and use 2 of them tho. And in a racing application, the disc/pads would only be used by an emergency "Panic" button on the wheel which would trigger stability control, as well as ABS braking. Obviously, if the Panic button is used, the driver resignes from the race.
But, a really innovative design. Especially the use of the caliper which is already there!
Sorry about the late reply like I said before the report is coming to a conclusion and all my time is devoted to it for the time being.
I don’t really know what the power output of the heat sink HER system is, I need to firstly find the chemical and then work out the figures.
The heat sink HER system would be used as a top up device.
A heat sink is an object that absorbs and dissipates heat from other objects like motor, batteries, inverters, ECU and so on through thermal contact.
All the concepts use friction brakes and the air brake was an area that needed to be explored.
I kept the sidepods to prevent wheel entanglement and by removing it - it fundamentally changed the visual characteristic of the vehicle.
I didn’t want to turn the vehicle into a 4WD platform because of the fundamental make up of the racing series, which is RWD.
Unsprung weight is a very big issue with In-Hub-Motors - they are very big and inappropriate for formula 1 in their current state, which is why concept/option 3 houses most of its components onboard.
my plane A:
150ps Hub motor X4 (also KERS generator), no onbroad motor, gear box & drive train
A123 battery
Flywheel battery to store the brake energy
Monocoque: carbon-fibre/Aluminium honeycomb.
movable wings, front wing can contraled by driver, rear wings can move by itself only, but no contral method
heat energy recover provide 200ps
solar cell rear wing
supension KERS
Plan B：
400ps onbroad motor for rear shaft + 100ps hub motor X2 for front shaft
A123 Battery
main battery & mechanical flybrid store brake energy together
movable wings, front wing can contraled by driver, rear wings can move by itself only, but no contral method
heat energy recover provide 200ps
solar cell rear wing
supension KERS
Hello drive-by-wire is an electronically controlled system - that controls the vehicles steering, acceleration and braking - similar to the ones found in helicopter, jets and so on.
It sends the drivers steering, acceleration and braking inputs electronically appose too mechanically (for a lack of a better word).
If you want to know more about Drive-by-wire you should Google/Wikipedia it.
Project update
The project has currently finished/ended and I will be updating this blog ASAP whenever that might be hopefully sooner rather than later.
Currently I’m flat out with work so I will post it when I have a free weekend.
There is no reason why u guys should doubt weather its is gonna be open wheeled or not .
This is coz Formula one is a kind of formula racing . Formula racing should always be single seater and open wheeled
interesting thread though .
We give dogs the time we can spare , space we can spare , and love we can spare . In return dogs give us their all . Its the best deal man has ever made .
savann wrote:Hello drive-by-wire is an electronically controlled system - that controls the vehicles steering, acceleration and braking - similar to the ones found in helicopter, jets and so on.
It sends the drivers steering, acceleration and braking inputs electronically appose too mechanically (for a lack of a better word).
urm, not the steering it dosnt...heaven forbid...not really the braking either
