"Golden Age" of drivers.

[Ciro Pabón]

One measure of a Golden Age of drivers might be the number of WDCs on any given grid. Anyone have some stats on which years/races had the most WDCs on the starting grid?

Sure, it's easy to reach, took me 10 minutes. The year with more ex-WDC champions are 1966, 1968 and 1970 with 5 champions, which were Brabham, the Hills (Phil & Graham), Clark and Surtees in 1966. Take away Brabham and add Hulme for 1968. Take away Graham Hill and add Stewart in 1970.



The years with more WDC champions (that is ex-WDC or future champions) are the same, plus 1972, 1978, 1979 and 1980, with 8 ex-champions or future champions.



I think I'm the only one that actually saw these guys in action, because my first GP was at Jarama, 1966 or 1967. So much for you being the lucky generation. I hope next time Dave or Carlos (or someone as experienced as them, ehem) speak, everybody listens...

Allow me one second to pull up my pants before I continue, kids.

Kudos to Belatti, as a good latinamerican, he has good instincts. Donskar is a gringo, but he's tejano, that explains it. However, rjsa is also on the mark, also (strange... who is the latino in your family, mate? ).

Yes, yes, I know that I cannot predict who is going to be champion in the future, so the last graph will be modified as time goes by. Anyway, don't make me laugh. How many races have NOT been won by Ferrari/McLaren/Renault/Williams in your life? (c'mon, it's not that difficult to find that! I already posted the numbers). Now you're going to convince me this is the golden age of diversity. This is the golden age of capitalism, comrades.

Stop the hype, for the love of Pete and try harder to learn something from Carlos's last poetic post or WB educated guesses. Hamiltonmania is driving me crazy.

[Conceptual]

Thank you Ciro, those graphs are exactly the objective measuring stick that is necessary to put these subjective arguments to rest.

And thank you to all that contributed. It looks as if we are only in a "Golden Age" if more drivers become WDC in the next few years. Although it is highly possible, we are going to have to wait and see.

All that I can say is that I am very happy to be a F1 fan at this point in F1 history, because we are very possibly on the verge of a very LONG and hard fought decade of the current drivers competing at the top of their game.

Lets just hope that the cars hold up their end. In the 60's, I can see how a brilliant designer could have the advantage for half of a season, but the more computer modeling comes into play, the closer these cars will be in terms of performance.

But, as always, there is only ONE perfect, and which ever team gets it first will be very tough to beat!

Thanks again for everyones contributions!

[Ciro Pabón]

Well, friend, I wouldn't be so sure about the "hard fought" part. I tried to show the years with more "good drivers" (and it's also a statistic, don't trust them...). I also did it like some kind of joke, as you can see by the number of smilies I feel obliged to include and the tone of the post.

However, if you try to look for the drivers with a first win, as a measure of "hard fought" championship, here you have the number of drivers each year that won their first race (counting Indy races during the 50's, that is). It's not a clear picture, but it's an indication.

So, a first approach would be: the 60's and 80's were the golden age of racers, the 80's (maybe) saw the most disputed or equilibrated championship.



The complete list is here:

List with the 100 winners in the history of F1 and the list of ex-champions/future champions in the grid

BTW, Vettel is the 100th person in history to have won a GP.

[Miguel]

Mmm... I thought Kovalainen was actually the 100th, and Vettel the 101st. Can be wrong, thoguh, as I haven't done my homework and just relied from what some journalists said.

BTW: Maybe there were so many ex-champions in the 60s because everybody was so inconsistent that car competitiveness was less important After all, who can say that Clark was actually better than, I don't know, Gilles? Yes, yes, this is stirring the pot.

[shir0]

Gawd!!! ...and I thought I have a lot of time on my hands for the next couple of weeks being on vacation and all. Sir Ciro, how and where did you find the time to collate this amount of data?

[Ciro Pabón]

Easy. The info on WDC winners is in Wikipedia. It took me 10-15 minutes to move it to a Excel file, check the active years (which are in the page for each WDC) and create the graphs. The second graph I created with just an equation in Excel. Check the excel file I made, there you'll see how.

The info on first time winners I took from GP.com forum, where it was posted verbatim: http://forum.grandprix.com/viewtopic.ph ... &sk=t&sd=a

I just made the graph. Total time, maybe 25 minutes. I was able to eat my breakfast at the same time. Thanks to Bill Gates (or whoever is responsible) for dynamic tables and graphs. Typetouch helps... as you can deduce from my short posts.

[jddh1]

BTW, Vettel is the 100th person in history to have won a GP.

It was Kovalainen, not Vettel. I never expected this from you Ciro.

[Ciro Pabón]

Oops. I don't know why I tend to forget McLaren victories this year...

[andartop]

Unfortunately I 'm a bit younger than some of the people here, but I do consider myself lucky to have had the opportunity to watch 2 great drivers in F1: Ayrton Senna and Michael Schumacher. If I could choose though, I would definitely have preferred to be around when Tazio Nuvolari was racing, and then Gilles Villeneuve. I really do not think 2008 will ever be considered "golden" by any standards. No mean to disrespect anyone, I think all drivers are great, but I cannot see any of the guys racing this year being remembered in the distant future as fondly as any of the 4 abovementioned.. I really hope and wish they prove me wrong!

[Conceptual]

I think there is a LOT of talent on the grid in 2008, and most of it in their 20's.

What strikes me most is that in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, the grid had a much higher average age, so their window of productive driving was a bit smaller.

With the grid full of 20-someting uber-class drivers, we have the opportunity to see the current drivers mature over the next 10 years or so, and that will only make the racing better.

Golden Age or not, I am very thankful that I am here to watch these men at the beginning of their careers, because I believe that several of them will be historic names in F1 20 or 30 years from now!

[donskar]

I think there is a LOT of talent on the grid in 2008, and most of it in their 20's.

What strikes me most is that in the 60's, 70's, and 80's, the grid had a much higher average age, so their window of productive driving was a bit smaller.

With the grid full of 20-someting uber-class drivers, we have the opportunity to see the current drivers mature over the next 10 years or so, and that will only make the racing better.

Golden Age or not, I am very thankful that I am here to watch these men at the beginning of their careers, because I believe that several of them will be historic names in F1 20 or 30 years from now!

Yes, in terms of potential this is one of the best grids ever. In past years, French and Italian money got lots of young Frenchmen and Italians onto the grid, but their talent did not ultimately match their sponsorship.

One other change: the increasing levels of sponsorship have made the drivers more effective as corporate spokesmen. They are more polished and professional, but - alas - lack the "color," flair and personality of some of our past greats - Hunt, Hill (Graham), Surtees, Gurney, Masten Gregory, "Wild Willy" Mairesse, Peter Revson, etc. Just my opinion.

[Belatti]

Yes, in terms of potential this is one of the best grids ever. In past years, French and Italian money got lots of young Frenchmen and Italians onto the grid, but their talent did not ultimately match their sponsorship.

You are missing Brazilians: Moreno, Rosset, Diniz, Burti, Bernoldi, Tarso Marquez, Zonta, Pizzonia

[andartop]

Do you have any idea what are all these guys doing now? I really liked Pizzonia "the jungle boy". Luciano Burti as well.

[donskar]

You are missing Brazilians: Moreno, Rosset, Diniz, Burti, Bernoldi, Tarso Marquez, Zonta, Pizzonia

Yes, well done. They strike me as all having been good,talented drivers, but not quite good enough for F1. Moreno was one of my favorites; he had a long, fruitful career.

[Conceptual]

This will be one of those topics that will come up 15 years from now in an archaelogical dig.

And only then will the question truly be answered.

Thanks to all that contributed!