Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
By this measure then only Bourdais is a rookie as he had no previous F1 experience.
I think Bourdais deserves another year and it may be that if he was team mate with anyone other than Vettel then he would have been shown in a much better light.
Vettel was superb this year.
Nakajima was no better than Piquet but wrecked fewer cars..
that's all i have to say about that.. he sucks so much i don't care about the performance of the rookies.. they were like superstars compared to him.. even Nakajima..
he really let me down this year.. hopefully he stops sucking in 2009..
Bourdais had terrible luck this season, when the car failed him before the start at Monza, I felt terrible for him. He started fourth, and easily could have scored a podium. He deserves to stay on in 2009.
modbaraban wrote:...Glock was great, but he's not a rookie. He debuted in Canadian Grand Prix 2004 scoring 2 points for Jordan.
so one race four years ago makes you an experienced campaigner in F1?
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
No he's not a TRUE rookie, but then neither is Nakajima (he started the Brazilian GP 2007 for Williams)
Then neither was Vettle last year.... they were all rookies, 1-2 races dont make that huge a deal, they probly gained more experience over winter testing. Gllock had how many F1 races a couple years ago? maybe 1? and how much have the cars changed, and how many times have the qualifying procedures changed since then. Glock is obviously a rookie, as in Nakajima, as is Bourdais.
That was exatly my point, Glock, Nakajima and Vettel are not TRUE rookie's in the strictest sence. However in terms of reasonable F1 experience, they might aswell be. Hence why I included Glock in my list of Rookies.
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.
Timo didn't do a bad job considering the experience of his team mate and that he is well established in the team. If Toyota find some more speed Timo might be the man to show up on podiums for them.
Formula One's fundamental ethos is about success coming to those with the most ingenious engineering and best ..............................organization, not to those with the biggest budget. (Dave Richards)
I could see Nakajima as a real good test driver. He understands the car well from what I've from him interviews, but his racing is not good at all IMO.
Nelsinho was thrown too soon in the mix. He might be good but he does not have the competitive drive that Hammy had last year and Vettel showed this year as well. He needs to learn that drivers don't just drive the car. A year in testing duties would help.
Bourdais is not a rookie as far as driving goes, but he is in fact a F1 rookie. Somebody said that he only complains on the radio. Well, what is the radio for, 101.3 FM? You always want to make the car better and always tell the team what you think it's wrong with it. I'd rather have a driver that tells me every little thing that might be wrong than one that asks me about my cat, the elections, and the economy. So don't get hung up on the complaining too much. He should be retained for another year at least, but I'm afraid he will not. With STR testing some of the younger guys, I think he's done in F1 for good. Sad, but true.
And Glock, although just 4 races, still I think a rookie because it's his first full season. Of the lot, he was the best, outshining Trulli at times. I'd totally continue with Glock and Trulli for a couple more years for sure.
Spencifer_Murphy wrote:That was exatly my point, Glock, Nakajima and Vettel are not TRUE rookie's in the strictest sence. However in terms of reasonable F1 experience, they might aswell be. Hence why I included Glock in my list of Rookies.
I wasnt argueing against you, just adding to your point.
Spencifer_Murphy wrote:That was exatly my point, Glock, Nakajima and Vettel are not TRUE rookie's in the strictest sence. However in terms of reasonable F1 experience, they might aswell be. Hence why I included Glock in my list of Rookies.
I wasnt argueing against you, just adding to your point.
I know you weren't arguing against my point. Your post made me realise that I could have been clearer, so that post above was just me clarifying what I had said earlier. No harm done I hope.
On topic:
I hope Bourdais gets a race seat, BUT, Takuma Sato is currently testing for STR, and, frankly I rate him. I watched him in 2001 winning the british F3 title and thought "Damn He's good, hope he gets into F1 soon." so soon enough he's signed to race with Jordan in 2002. For the next few years he frankly tried too hard. He calmed it down and became a great leader for Super Aguri before their unfortunate demise.
With the loss of Vettel Taku could be just what they need, and he'll bring some experience too. Bourdais should race alongside him, but I hope that it doesn't turn out that Taku takes Seb's seat and somebody else lines up alonside Taku. That'd be a bit harsh.
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.
Piquet this year recorded much more minuses than pluses, so my impression in general is negative. I think Renault was focusing on his pluses - they had similary uninspired Trulli who in contrary got sacked, but I think they see here a much better second fiddle next season. Hence the new chance next year, but no more.
Nakajima…can’t find any reason to be impressed, nor disappointed with him in what has been a fairly disappointing season for the team, apart the shock podiums.
Bourdais gets my vote. Until Barcelona, in terms of speed he was at least on the same level with Vettel, if not better. The mid-season stint with the new car was a disappointment, but from Valencia onwards he showed improvement, consistency and promise. All of that, delivered under pressure. Here are some scraps of an interview with him.
Q: In Champ Car you had a very close relationship with your engineer Craig Hampson and the team management. How is the relationship with Toro Rosso developing? SB: ….The biggest difference and the biggest problem I find is that you have so many people involved in the [decision-making] system. In Champ Car it was only Craig and I; there was nobody else to justify or to talk to….Here it’s like a polygamous relationship. There are just so many more people involved in the thinking process.I’m starting to have a very good relationship with Claudio [Balestri], but the truth is you still have a lot of people to refer to, to get the understanding, to get the right timing and it takes a bit longer than a normal driver-engineer relationship [in other formulae]. Q: Some drivers who have come over to F1 from Champ Car in the past have found that it takes longer than they are used to for the team to trust them when it comes to making set-up calls. Have you found that? SB: Well for us it’s even harder than this because obviously we [Toro Rosso] don’t decide on development, so if we’re not happy with the car, tough luck, that’s what you’re going to have to deal with until something else happens. So obviously that’s a bit harder.In Champ Cars we also had a lot more things to play with in terms of car set-up than we do in Formula 1. F1 is very much optimised, and whether the car functions or not, by design, by concept it’s not adjustable. Everything on the suspension is the way it is; if you want to change the castor for example you need a whole new suspension.So that limits the influence and the impact of driver comments in some respects.Especially since if you have an engineering office or a design office that responds to your comments, that’s one thing, but we [as Red Bull's 'B' team] are second-hand.So it’s very different, and obviously when you fight a problem, it’s much harder to find solutions and it takes much longer as well.
AFAIK we’re not professional drivers, team-bosses, nor race engineers here, but still I’ll ask you (primarly Vyselegend and Miguel) do you think his remarks / complaints are justified? IMO, in these circumstances, he did well enough against super – Vettel and for the title “Rookie of the year”.
"You will never know the feeling of a driver
when winning a race. The helmet hides feelings
that cannot be understood."
Ayrton Senna, November 1988
Spencifer_Murphy wrote:I know you weren't arguing against my point. Your post made me realise that I could have been clearer, so that post above was just me clarifying what I had said earlier. No harm done I hope.
On topic:
I hope Bourdais gets a race seat, BUT, Takuma Sato is currently testing for STR, and, frankly I rate him. I watched him in 2001 winning the british F3 title and thought "Damn He's good, hope he gets into F1 soon." so soon enough he's signed to race with Jordan in 2002. For the next few years he frankly tried too hard. He calmed it down and became a great leader for Super Aguri before their unfortunate demise.
With the loss of Vettel Taku could be just what they need, and he'll bring some experience too. Bourdais should race alongside him, but I hope that it doesn't turn out that Taku takes Seb's seat and somebody else lines up alonside Taku. That'd be a bit harsh.
No harm done at all
Buemi is not ready, nor is he fast... Grosjan, Di Grassi, Senna, & Di Resta are far better options. mUch more upside.
But Ideally, Sato, would be best as you have stated... but they should also consider Doornbos, or Luizzi again, they are still relatively young and have more experince than those other young guys.
