3 cars per team

[shotzski]

The problem is that now in-season testing is finished, if one team runs a third car, most teams will want to run one.

Well if that's the case, maybe the teams could come to an agreement of having a "Draw": Different teams running a third car at GP weekends. (Eg: Melbourne-Ferrari, Mclaren. Singapore-Williams, Renault, and so on)

[axle]

Personally I think the more cars the better. More drivers, more action around the track. More sponsor value.

And Bernie should foot the bill by giving in to FOTA and giving them more money.

Or alternatively, they could just make the sport condusive to Williams accepting "customer" cars. Maybe the F1 teams could all be paid to produce 2 extra cars (construction cost only) and then they are sold off to privateers...if they don't sell all the cars then FOM takes the hit...

[shotzski]

Or alternatively, they could just make the sport condusive to Williams accepting "customer" cars.

What is Williams' beef against customer cars really? I also think its great for the sport, because it will entice more investors/privateers to enter the sport. Thus increasing the number of fans, TV coverage, sponsors, more money to Bernie hehehe, more drivers to have the opportunity to drive in F1.

If customer cars would become a reality, I think Mosley's proposal of standard engine and gearbox would be more feasible to the sport.

[axle]

Williams' "Beef" is simple.

4x Ferrari's and 4x McLarens (1 customer pair of each) on the grid = no points for anyone else.

0 points = no prize/FOM money and the customer car teams gaining the FOM money but they don't put any effort into making their own racer.

There needs to be a system which allows for the odd customer team like STR but without it killing the little constructors who for better or worse pride themselves on making their own car. The reduction in budget required to run a team will go a long way to help this situation get fixed....but it can't alone.

It would be nice if the 3rd cars were all privateer's, who buy 1 car from 1 constructor until all the constructors have sold 1 car. Then people like Sato could "buy" their drive and proove themselves against the others...

[donskar]

Williams' "Beef" is simple.

4x Ferrari's and 4x McLarens (1 customer pair of each) on the grid = no points for anyone else.

0 points = no prize/FOM money and the customer car teams gaining the FOM money but they don't put any effort into making their own racer.

There needs to be a system which allows for the odd customer team like STR but without it killing the little constructors who for better or worse pride themselves on making their own car. The reduction in budget required to run a team will go a long way to help this situation get fixed....but it can't alone.

It would be nice if the 3rd cars were all privateer's, who buy 1 car from 1 constructor until all the constructors have sold 1 car. Then people like Sato could "buy" their drive and proove themselves against the others...

Axle, I think you've explained William's position very well. There are some glaring points here that beg to be highlighted:

1) Williams' assumption that F1 is and WILL CONTINUE to be a two-make series (I don't think BMW, Renault and Toyota would agree). If Williams concedes defeat before the season begins, they should withdraw.
2) Whether the field is 18, 20, 22, or 24, MOST teams will earn NO points in any given race.
3) A long time ago a team entered hopelessly uncompetitive cars on a shoe string budget. They earned no points at first, but they persevered and eventually became very successful. The team I refer to is called Williams.
4) A well-presented team, professionally organized and managed, can make a go of it in a reasonable economic climate, even without scoring bushels of points.

[pgj]

Williams has a two stage objection to customer cars. At first, the only objection was to customer cars being awarded WCC prize-money. Along with all of the other teams, Williams sanctioned a suspension of the customer cars rule in the Concorde Agreement that allowed STR and SA to race. AT that stage, Williams only objected to prize money being awarded to 'non-constructors'.

Max then started making statements about the Concorde Agreement being dead and that Williams' business model was obsolete. At this point Williams took a harder line and objected to CC's on the grounds that it was a test of the Concorde Agreement and ultimately control of F1. It was reported that Williams, Midland and a couple of other teams combined to establish a case against CC's. It was a case that was never tested, the FIA did not press its claim and there are still question marks surrounding CC's and whether they have a future.

My ideal would be for CC's to be allowed but take no part in the WCC. Along with reduced running costs, it would provide a recovery environment for F1.

[axle]

I think Non constructors need a prize for doing well as it is a team effort...however it shouldn't be as big as those that try to do it themselves.

IF (LOL) the rules didn't change for a number of years they could instead buy 1 year old F1 cars and race them instead of cutting edge F1 constructor cars. That would IMO keep Williams happy as then it really is up to them to stay ahead!

[ESPImperium]

My solution to this is actually to allow a few single car teams into F1. Yes there is a few pros and cons of this. But i feel that Williams for example are short-sighted if they decided they would veto this as thats how they came into F1 with a Customer Chassis.

What id do is allow a few, say 4 single car teams into F1, but taking a idea from DTM, allow them in with season or 2 season old technology, but a little updated.

Say allow one team to have a STR2B with updated aero for 2009, but with say the Renault Engine from 2007 on board.

Allow them to start with some quality support from bigger more orginised teams, but each of the 4 single car teams should have support from at least 2 teams to get the started and thru the first season or two.

The allow them to have a Standard KERS and the Standard Drivetrain for 2010 as well, to add into a customer chassis.

Personally i feel that Customer teams running a single car is the way to get more teams into F1. But at a price that is right for the customer, and is sustainable for a few years.

And as for the concorde aggreement is concernd, that thing should be scrapped to allow this to happen, its out dated in this day in age when we need more cars and teams on the grid.

Basically id allow 10 2 car teams and 4 to 6 single car teams on the grid, as it would make a fuller spectace and make more space for showcasing the best drivers in the world and their tallents.

[pgj]

That is an interesting proposal. The sticking point would be money though. F1 teams are already complaining about financing CVC's debt for no other reason than it is Bernie's pension fund. If FOTA does break away from CVC/F1 and relaunch itself, FOTA may decide to put a feeder system in place. I do not see it happening within existing finances though.