STR vs Red Bull

[paused]

I think another point to mention for this season is the 1000 RPM limit reduction. So not only were Renault allowed to modify their engine to make a relative power output gain but also all engines had their RPM limit reduced.

I am no engine expert, but I do remember some engine analysis last year which showed Ferrari's engine was best (relatively) at the top end and for peak (straigt line) speed.

If I can remember also the Renalt was previously known for low end driveability. Now if you take all the downforce away (high end peak output) become less dominating and low end driveability becomes more of an advantage since the downforce (drag) is reduced.

The only Ferrari engines this year are STR and Ferrari and the gossip is that the Merc is the engine to have. Could it be that the most of the disparity bewteen STR and RBR racing is once again the engine and this could be part of Ferarris woes?

[Patriiick]

If I recall at the beginning of the season, STR said that they did all of the Mold layup in house, as well as designing the support systems (cooling, electrical, exhaust). I cannot remember exactly where I read that, maybe the STR4 launch?

There was a 4 page article about faenza workshop in the f1racing pre-season preview issue: maybe that s where you got that from ?
They said (as i recall) that they get the blueprints from RB then make stuff locally.. They have several autoclaves and such so i would assume quite a bunch of bits are made locally.

[Patriiick]

I think another point to mention for this season is the 1000 RPM limit reduction. So not only were Renault allowed to modify their engine to make a relative power output gain but also all engines had their RPM limit reduced.

I am no engine expert, but I do remember some engine analysis last year which showed Ferrari's engine was best (relatively) at the top end and for peak (straigt line) speed.

If I can remember also the Renalt was previously known for low end driveability. Now if you take all the downforce away (high end peak output) become less dominating and low end driveability becomes more of an advantage since the downforce (drag) is reduced.

The only Ferrari engines this year are STR and Ferrari and the gossip is that the Merc is the engine to have. Could it be that the most of the disparity bewteen STR and RBR racing is once again the engine and this could be part of Ferarris woes?

I would bet on the diffuser development. As far as i understand, TR is getting the CURRENT RB diffuser spec in Spain.. That could explain for quite a bit..

the 19Krpm limit has really made it quite difficult to see a difference between engines.
Playing with cartography gives you a few more top end rpm vs low driveability - BrawnGP was heard on radio about that during the last gp..

One thing is for sure, the difference does not lie in KERS

[Project Four]

Has there been confirmation that STR actually manufactured the STR4 chassis in house? I believe that RBT designed the car around the Renault engine/KERS system, and then left the STR team to adapt it to the Ferrari engine(possibly KERS?).

If I recall at the beginning of the season, STR said that they did all of the Mold layup in house, as well as designing the support systems (cooling, electrical, exhaust). I cannot remember exactly where I read that, maybe the STR4 launch?

On the Aero side however, they are rather identical. I believe that there are some differences around the engine cover, but nothing that obvious that I have seen.

I read on the Autosport website that at the Chinese GP Red Bull used driveshaft boots from Toro Rosso, and this was allowed as the boots were made from the same mold, (seem to recall that they were also from the same batch).

Can't find the article / story so can not link it, if I find it I will post link.

[Conceptual]

Has there been confirmation that STR actually manufactured the STR4 chassis in house? I believe that RBT designed the car around the Renault engine/KERS system, and then left the STR team to adapt it to the Ferrari engine(possibly KERS?).

If I recall at the beginning of the season, STR said that they did all of the Mold layup in house, as well as designing the support systems (cooling, electrical, exhaust). I cannot remember exactly where I read that, maybe the STR4 launch?

From the STR Launch press kit.

GIANFRANCO FANTUZZI – TEAM MANAGER
This year, Gianfranco is our Team Manager, but it’s in his previous role, in charge of the production side at Scuderia Toro Rosso, that Fantuzzi takes us through the build of the 2009 car.

“If you take parts manufactured in the factory or purchased directly by us, almost 100 percent of the car is made in-house. Our procurement department processes 14,000 drawings, including those for car components, jigs, tooling, assembly and so on,” says the former General Manager at the team.

The most obvious increase in home production is in the Composites Department.
“At first, we decided to make a few parts in our own composites department, but for the first time ever, we have now made the actual chassis in-house, whereas last year it was produced by Carbotec in Austria. This has been a big challenge for us and the chassis took up 100 percent of our energy up to the start of the season. It involved re-commissioning the original autoclave that has been here since before the Toro Rosso name went up over the door. We also had to take on more staff with good qualifications in the fields of laminating and trimming. In fact, before tackling STR4, we actually made a 2008 STR3 chassis to see how it would work out and that proved to be a very valuable experience.”

The factory itself has grown, with an additional building shaping up to be the new machine shop, while additional staff have joined on the design and composites side. As for the team’s future expansion, a lot will depend on how the sport’s rules determine just what constitutes a manufacturer and constructor in Formula One.

Here's the link if you want the full doc http://www.scuderiatororosso.com/PageFi ... 20Word.doc

I thought so...

Thanks for the info!

[ISLAMATRON]

What you need to establish race pace is a lap by lap analysis...that you cannot easily get after the race (unless you write down every lap from such driver during the live )

F1matrix.it

lap by lap times for every driver

takes a couple days after every race

[ISLAMATRON]

Would be more relevant to look at the race pace of the said RB/TR drivers.
Such an analysis on qualifying times is sometimes misleading.

Why not look at the race pace instead ? You would be surprised at Bahrein's results.

Why would you compare the 2 RBR drivers in Bahrain when Webber was blocked in Q1 and started in the back of the pack?

[gcdugas]

What you need to establish race pace is a lap by lap analysis...that you cannot easily get after the race (unless you write down every lap from such driver during the live )

F1matrix.it

lap by lap times for every driver

takes a couple days after every race

These things do not take into account getting stuck behind a slower car. For instance, Vettel in Bahrain spent more than 50% of the race behind LH or JT and only went fast when he was on a clear track. This is how he jumped JT at the second stop. Raw stats tell only a partial story. Nice website resource though.