Which teams wont make the 2010 entry list?

[u401768]

Can you really see BE letting Max destroy his cash cow by not buckling and getting the FOTA teams on side and tied in to 2012 - so with this in mind i think the only new team we will see will be USF1 who were coming in anyway. ProDrive will not come in as its not the £40 mil conditions and they wont make a profit and the rest i really don’t see anyway.

Also there appears to be a tie with Brawns title sponsor (who was not named at Monaco as originally stated) being tied to Ferrari and Malaren being on the grid - they want the kudos of these teams being there. No Ferrari/Malaren - no money, so the same stance as Redbull really.

MadMax may be on a power play, but he wont be president if it comes down to no name teams and Williams, and no Ferrari, Malaren, and (probably WC) Brawn…

With 8 days to go I think we will only see 1 new team, no Max and 2009 rules.

And before the rain of abuse – do I think the idea of the £40 mil cap bad – no, but no one in the teams trust Max to leave the regs alone for 2011 so no chance they will go for it.

I’m not eve so sure of Cosworth. They need to have more than 2 teams to be viable, and I really cant see Ferrari, Mclaren, Toyota make engines if they are racing in a different series.

So no engines – no racing…

Too many cards to play yet to know who will be there in 2010.

[Chaparral]

This from Mosley this morning

Start your own series, Mosley tells FOTA

By Jonathan Noble Thursday, June 4th 2009, 08:29 GMT

FIA president Max Mosley has indicated that the governing body is not about to bow to demands being placed on it by Formula 1's current teams about their entry to the 2010 championship.

Nine of the sport's current competitors submitted their entries to next year's championship on the condition that a new Concorde Agreement was signed by June 12 and that next year's cost-cutting rule changes are abandoned in favour of their preferred regulations.

However, speaking to Swiss publication Motorsport Aktuell, Mosley has made it clear that it is unlikely a Concorde Agreement can be put together in such a short time frame - and he has suggested the rebel teams go off and set up their own championship if they are unhappy.

"A Concorde Agreement which one receives so late can't be signed by June 12," Mosley was quoted as saying.

"We now have a conflict and we will see who succeeds in the end. I say to them: If you want to draw up your own rules, then you can organise your own championship. But we have the Formula 1 championship.

"We draw up the rules for that. We have been doing that for 60 years and we will continue doing so."

With a whole host of new teams having submitted entries to next year's championship, there are no shortage of competitors who can fill the grid if current teams do not wish to compete.

Ferrari team principal Stefano Domenicali said last week that if the conditions laid down by FOTA's nine members were not accepted, then their entries would be invalid.

I wonder what Ecclestone is doing with Mosely set to destroy Ecclestones empire by not even acknowledging the FOTA entries - its taking a huge gamble that FOTA will crumble and most of the current teams will bow to Mosley's dictate - Ecclestone has to be crapping himself or is he - maybe he figures that as he on sold the rights to CVC its not his problem if F1 falls over and has struck a deal with FOTA to organise a new series and he certainly has the capacity to do so.........wouldnt that be divine justice with Mosley Id piss myself laughing to be honest - finally rid of that prick.

As for the serious new 'contenders' possibly USF1 Prodrive and Epsilon Euskadi which I hear is tied in with Penske to build the car - the rest who knows Campos may be another serious entrant and obviously Williams - we shall wait and see.

[F1ParkingSpace]

I know this thread was started before the news broke, so what do people make of the potential Brabham team entry? It's based around the ex-Super Aguri set up but with actual funding!! I would love to see that name back in F1 and I suspect so would Bernie, whilst I wonder what Max thinks of the thought of having March back in the sport...

I predict we will see the following teams in F1 in 2010:

Current Teams:

Williams
Ferrari
McLaren
Brawn
Force India
Red Bull
Renault (but will be bought out and renamed by Flavio)

5 from these 6 new Teams:

USF1
Prodrive
Lola
Brabham
Epsilon
Superfund

I wouldn't be suprised to see one of the new teams buy the existing Torro Rosso setup, and as has been suggested elsewhere if BMW pull out, Alex Wurz and Superfund could buy out their setup...

[WhiteBlue]

It is fun to speculate how this will end. So I will do another one. Even some experienced F1 hacks are over looking the point that teams can still make late applications and that the seniority of such an application together with the number of successfull new applicants will determine their chair. In my list the accepted new teams and the FOTA teams appear in the order of their expected seniority of application:

Williams
Prodrive
USF1
Epsilon Euskadi
Lola
Superfund

McLaren-Mercedes
BMW-Sauber
BrawnGPE
FIF1
Red Bull
Toro Rosso (later rebranded Red Bull -Ferrari)
BriatoreF1

Ferrari will not apply but will buy Toro Rosso. Mateschitz will require them to rename the team Red Bull-Ferrari (what a hoot). RENAULT will sell to Briatore. Toyota will go DTM and Le Mans. Ferrari will sell the Toro Rosso factory and most assets to Superfund.

[DaveKillens]

I wonder what Max thinks of the thought of having March back in the sport...

Very nice, you know your history. For anyone not familiar with March, the "M" in that name belongs to Max. Max Mosley, Alan Rees, Graham Coaker, and Robin Herd. I was also wondering how Bernie felt about Brabahm being a possible competitor too.

First off, that despite the manner in how it all came about, it is truly wonderful to see so many new teams becoming involved in Formula One. Despite my feelings of conflict, I do wish each and every one of them all the best. Regardless of what may transpire soon, teams and people like this are the future of Formula One and all forms of magnificent racing.

There's a storm brewing, and Max is now applying a lot of pressure on FOTA members to break ranks and accept his terms. Considering that Turkey is the last chance for anyone to change their mind and drop their demands, this weekend has huge implications. There will be lots of meetings at Turkey, and I wish I was a fly on the wall when that happens.
I know a lot of people have strong emotional ties to certain teams, it is difficult to imagine Formula One without the established teams, especially Ferrari and McLaren. But the unthinkable may happen.
And exactly how will this impact on Bernie and Max? Well, Max will have absolute control of the future of Formula One, which he craves. For Bernie, the situation isn't that bleak. If the season begins with the field full of new names, he can get past that. Bernie already has everything lined up. The TV contracts, the tracks, everything but established names. He may suffer a slight decline in TV ratings for awhile. But that can be overcome by advertising and a determined public relations campaign. For instance, Danica Partick just may be lured to Formula One. That would attract a lot of attention and buzz. Sure the quality of racing will suffer, but for most of the people who tune in to watch a race, that would not be that important.
And further down the road, things look bright and cheery for Max and Bernie. Under today's duress, any team wishing to be around for more than just one year will sign the new Concorde Agreement. And of course, it will remain secret. But I have no doubt it will give Bernie and Max even more power than ever before.

[Richard]

It all comes down to geese and gold eggs.

Until recently Ferari got more money becaue they were fundamental to the sport. Thay can't have switched to indepensible over night, so why the change? The historic stuff was window dressing to mask a crude bribe.

Max's question (and Bernie) is whether F1 is bigger than the combined FOTA teams (provided he can't break their unity with further bribes) and can he keep the money machine turning without them. I suspect there is strong possiblity that F1 could do without them. Yes, devalued for 2010 and 11, but in a couple of years the show/glamour/income will be back to normal.

The opposite question is whether FOTA can find an alternative home, and whether the manufacturers are happy with the intially reduced paybeack on advertising and brand building. Again I think it is achievable by 2012.

However, I also believe one will rise to the top and the other will fold. It would be a battle between F1 with infrastructure but no team brand/glamour/money against FOTA with brand/glamour/money but no infrastucture.

So that's why both FIA and FOTA have the confidence to make an "or else" stand.

Of course, both sides would maxise their individual money if they stayed togther. That's why I still see a solution of FOTA in F1 as the most likely.... second only to a FOTA breaking bribe.

[ISLAMATRON]

Who to be bribed this time? McLaren? bringing Brawn & Force India with them, possibly renault/Flavio caving in like last time, and BMW saying what the hell cant race unless its against Merc

that would only leave Ferrari , Toyota who wants out anyway they can find, & RBR/STR who I could see joining the other bunch very easily, because the value of STR is about to drop to a big fat ZERO with all these new teams

[timbo]

I suspect there is strong possiblity that F1 could do without them. Yes, devalued for 2010 and 11, but in a couple of years the show/glamour/income will be back to normal.

F1 may stand, no doubts against that. In the end it is "formula" and nothing more. But don't expect it to have "show/glamour/income" it has now. All this is byproduct of the number of people and money involved.

However, I also believe one will rise to the top and the other will fold.

In case of breakaway both sides may suffer. F1 has a name and pedigree, FOTA probably would have top drivers.
Look at IRL/CART situation. They lost to NASCAR...

[modbaraban]

I know this thread was started before the news broke, so what do people make of the potential Brabham team entry? It's based around the ex-Super Aguri set up but with actual funding!!

Rumours suggest they have already started testing their SA07-based Renault-powered 2010 World Championship challenger.

Impressive, innit?

However the Brabhams aren't very impressed:

...triple World Champion Jack Brabham and his family are insisting that they have nothing do to with Hilmer's plans. In fact, they intend to prevent him from using their famous surname.
read-the-whole-thing-link

[WhiteBlue]

I see this as a strictly legal problem. If they aquired the brand name legally they can race it and any attempt by the Brabham family to stop them is ridiculous. If the naming rights are iffy they deserve to be hassled.

[chrys]

Force India defects, lodges 2010 entry.

http://www.motorsport.com/news/article. ... 0997&FS=F1

[gibells]

Politicking. Makes me sick that someone can come along and use another person's name with no claim to it. The only way MM can get credibility into the new lineup is by using historical names. I hope it comes to light that a lot of these new teams are just paper houses made to blackmail the existing 9 into agreeing. a budget cap.

The 9 (now 8?) must stand firm.

Viva the revolution!

[Scuderia_Russ]

Litespeed won't be on the F1 grid next year.

[DaveKillens]

What's in a name? Apparently a lot, since all of a sudden a few respectable names have suddenly popped up in response for Max's call for new applicants. Flavio Briatore says it best, "Yet this bunch of shell companies is putting in the entrance." I just hope that race fans remind themselves that they have absolutely nothing in common with the originals. Then again, modern teams share little too. McLaren transformed once Ron Dennis took over. Heck, any Ferrari fans in the house? Old school Ferrari fans? Because when Enzo Ferrari was alive his cars were famous for two things. They were red. And they had the most wonderful engines that defined Ferrari. V-12's that screamed and sang, that gave off such wonderful sounds not heard in today's world. And yet today we see their cars with V-8's? Just remember that the current teams have little in common with their originators.

I just read the press release from the FIA, this morning's press conference with Flavio BRIATORE (Renault), Stefano DOMENICALI (Ferrari), and John HOWETT (Toyota). The press conference gets underway with the traditional stuff about how the team(s) are coping with the Istanbul track. Then once the press is allowed questions, it immediately gets down to the political situation between FOTA and the FIA. One thing I noticed is that Flavio had a few long rants. My belief is that he is under a lot of stress, just like his peers.
I suggest you read it, because it reflects the current position of FOTA.
http://fia.com/en-GB/mediacentre/pressr ... _tur2.aspx

[donskar]

Dave, thanks for the link. It's V-E-E-RY slow at work today so I re-read it. Very important piece.

One thing jumps out -- objectively, without biase: FOTA is speaking publicly, on the record saying all the right things. (I hope we can all agree that "no war," "cooperate," "all in until 2012 and beyond," "reduce costs," "new teams" are the "right things" to say.) The anti-FOTA contingent can rightfully say that it is still just words. But, on the other hand, I think it's fair to say that many F1 followers can't help but feel that they (the fans) deserve some statement from the FIA. Unless FOTA leaders are lying on the record to the press, they have received no response from the FIA at all.

So on one side, one group claims to want to work for the common good. They claim (see Domenicali's statement) that they are supporting all the FIA's goals. From the other side: silence.

At the very least, the FIA's silence is very poor public relations. One wonders: is there nothing going on behind the scenes in the FIA? Surely, there is not 100% support for the stonewall approach? Is the FIA marching in lock step behind Max?

I have to wonder, does the FIA as a group, and the pro-Mosley group in particular, really have no respect at all for FOTA and -- much more importantly -- for the very large group of dedicated F1 fans who support FOTA? That is the really weird, and IMHO really important point. Forget your allegiance to any particular team -- how do you feel about the way you are being treated?