What will Massa do after 2010?

[marcush.]

2009


140 vs 131 for Heidfeld. it isn't big disadvantage and German team favoured Nick. In the middle of 2008 Kubica leaded table, but team didn't give him chance to fight for a title. I think he's constant driver. Why Heidfeld doesn't have any offers yet?

Nick was favoroured over kubica?????? In which world did you live in the past 4 years?
It was always kubica who got the shoulderclapping from Theissen whereas Heidfeld was
only performing as expected.
Massa back to Sauber I can´t see that happen,my Idea is Alonso will not be happy at Ferrari with Massa performing.

[vall]

You seem to forget the times when Massa moved over and "let Kimi by" giving him more "points" to help him win the WCC... no doubt Kimi returned the favor the next year but the results were slightly different. Massa was better than Kimi, absolutely no doubt, he made less mistakes but had more bad luck.

yes, I agree. Besides, even this year he had more point before the Hungary accudent.

[ringo]

Yes Massa was simply faster, the car suiting driver conspiracies are getting old.
I think he will stay at ferrari until he gets a WDC, losing to Alonso won't deter him. If it's one thing about Massa is that he is a fighter. Ferrari is the best place for him to be.

[Ciro Pabón]

... In which world did you live in the past 4 years?
...

In the same strange and misterously surprising world I've been living since 2006: the weird wide web of the Internerd.

I have a question: I've read the title of this thread several times. I try to think it says "What will Kubitza and Heidfeld do after 2010?" but my eyes tell me it says "What will Massa do after 2010?".

Of course, the answer to that tricky question, so hard to understand, could be:

"Massa will read F1Technical, as everybody in F1 does, and, instead of finding entertaining posts about facts of his life or hard data about his style, or even statistics about his career, or, perhaps his recent declarations about he hoping to stay at Ferrari in 2011, he will find ONLY endless posts ranting about who is the biggest loser, if Kubitza or Heidfeld.

So, after 2010, Massa will commit suicide, along Ciro Pabón. They will be mourned (briefly, very briefly) and the discusion about who's worse (if, at least the discusion were about who's better...), if Robert or Nicholas, will continue unabated, until Tomba, in desperation by the lost of his friends and the clueless rantings, will ban everybody and start a new forum, easier to moderate (that is: with no members at all)."

Simple: write about Massa in this thread, or start a new thread about Nick vs Robert or you will feel the brimstones, sulphur and fire of the F1 moderation team wrath. Pretty please?

Thanks to ISLAMATRON and Ringo for writing about Massa (two posts out of 20, not bad for this forum).

[roost89]

What do I think he'll do after 2010? Hmm, I suspect continue to drive in F1. I see no reason why he won't, he's fast and he's well integrated into Ferrari.

I think he'll stay on at Ferrari.

[segedunum]

You seem to forget the times when Massa moved over and "let Kimi by" giving him more "points" to help him win the WCC...

There were no times. Raikkonen was already in prime position with his performances before Brazil and Massa did what was necessary for the team as a whole because he couldn't win it. It had no bearing whatsoever on Raikkonen's performances that year and whether he was 'good enough' to be champion. He was.

Massa was better than Kimi, absolutely no doubt, he made less mistakes but had more bad luck.

Well, I hate to keep pointing this out, but Raikkonen was the World Champion in that team. Nearly just doesn't count. You aren't unlucky over two years when you've had guilt-edged chances to be champion. You simply aren't good enough. In 2007 he fell short of Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen and couldn't make it in 2008 despite the full backing of Ferrari and Hamilton doing his best to throw it away at times. He couldn't string several races together as Hamilton and Raikkonen could do when they were champions.

When Alonso turns up in that team I think he will be entitled to ask "Why are they supporting this guy that much?" if he feels that Ferrari are dividing and conquering themselves. He won't keep quiet about it as Raikkonen probably did either.

[segedunum]

Yes Massa was simply faster, the car suiting driver conspiracies are getting old.

I think history has taught us firmly that a driver can be favoured with a car with certain characteristics. Engineers can talk about a neutral car all they want but different drivers have different ideas about how they get through corners - in slow, out fast, turn in and brake late with a lively back end, take a different line in order to take a certain line into the next corner, some drivers are aggressive with the throttle and others aren't...... It's the one occasion where engineers do take a simplistic and wrong view of things.

In the case of Lewis Hamilton he has been helped with the kind of mechanical grip bias that McLaren has seemed to have, but that might interestingly equalise next year as Button moves the car around far less in corners. They're chalk and cheese.

The list of variables are endless and Formula 1 cars are so complex and sensitive now that any variables make a difference.

I think he will stay at ferrari until he gets a WDC, losing to Alonso won't deter him. If it's one thing about Massa is that he is a fighter. Ferrari is the best place for him to be.

Ferrari is certainly the best place for him to be, and he very much has the backing of that team. Having Schumacher in your corner doesn't hurt politically either. The problem is that while I think Massa is certainly fast and good enough to cause Alonso problems the real problem is that he falls short on the overall championship front. If Alonso feels that is a problem then you can bet he'll squeal.

[Giblet]

You seem to forget the times when Massa moved over and "let Kimi by" giving him more "points" to help him win the WCC...

There were no times. Raikkonen was already in prime position with his performances before Brazil and Massa did what was necessary for the team as a whole because he couldn't win it. It had no bearing whatsoever on Raikkonen's performances that year and whether he was 'good enough' to be champion. He was.

Massa was better than Kimi, absolutely no doubt, he made less mistakes but had more bad luck.

Well, I hate to keep pointing this out, but Raikkonen was the World Champion in that team. Nearly just doesn't count. You aren't unlucky over two years when you've had guilt-edged chances to be champion. You simply aren't good enough. In 2007 he fell short of Alonso, Hamilton and Raikkonen and couldn't make it in 2008 despite the full backing of Ferrari and Hamilton doing his best to throw it away at times. He couldn't string several races together as Hamilton and Raikkonen could do when they were champions.

When Alonso turns up in that team I think he will be entitled to ask "Why are they supporting this guy that much?" if he feels that Ferrari are dividing and conquering themselves. He won't keep quiet about it as Raikkonen probably did either.

Ferrari dropped the ball on Felipe more than once. His loss of the championship was Ferrari's fault more than his. Ferrari are acutely aware of this fact.

He fulfilled his part of the bargain. Win every chance you get. Ferrari let him down, it was not because he wasn't good enough.

[TRICKLE69]

Ferrari dropped the ball on Felipe more than once. His loss of the championship was Ferrari's fault more than his. Ferrari are acutely aware of this fact.

He fulfilled his part of the bargain. Win every chance you get. Ferrari let him down, it was not because he wasn't good enough.

Please correct me if I am wrong but if recall correctly Massa tossed the car off a couple of times in the beginning of the year as well, so I think that the fault is equal and the Ferrari mistakes came more towards the end of the year when points lost are more noticed. I think Massa should stay at Ferrari long term and is a great driver who will DEFINITELY embarrass Alonso. I think it will be comparable to the Lewis/Alonso battles.

[Giblet]

Ferrari dropped the ball on Felipe more than once. His loss of the championship was Ferrari's fault more than his. Ferrari are acutely aware of this fact.

He fulfilled his part of the bargain. Win every chance you get. Ferrari let him down, it was not because he wasn't good enough.

Please correct me if I am wrong but if recall correctly Massa tossed the car off a couple of times in the beginning of the year as well, so I think that the fault is equal and the Ferrari mistakes came more towards the end of the year when points lost are more noticed. I think Massa should stay at Ferrari long term and is a great driver who will DEFINITELY embarrass Alonso. I think it will be comparable to the Lewis/Alonso battles.

Alonso is considered by most engineers the best at setting up the car and quantifying new parts performance.

I think Massa is a great driver, and gets better every year, but Alonso's technical merit will be the deciding factor, and will give him an edge in understanding the car.

Much of Massa's greatness and maturing was achieved under the wing of Herr Schumi. Alonso has been a much more independent entity.

Driver's are expected to make mistakes from time to time, but the team is not supposed to let the driver run off with fuel hose or not put enough fuel in the car. That is not the same as pushing hard every lap and occasionally messing up.

It's not like he drove into the back of another car in the pit lane or anything, he was racing.

When he forgot how to drive in the wet at Silverstone was a very low moment for him however.

I guess EMBARRASSMENT is all how you define it or capitalize it. Some people would not be embarrassed to come out of a season against Hamilton nearly tied. Massa is not quick enough to actually humiliate Alonso, just like he wasn't able to humiliate Schumi.

The key difference between them:

Alonso believes he is the best (right or not doesn't matter he believes it), and the fact he beat Schumi to the WDC 2x and obliterated his teammates (until The Boss) and won in a sub standard car has helped cement his belief.

Massa knows he is not the best, as Schumi was his teammate.

[segedunum]

Ferrari dropped the ball on Felipe more than once. His loss of the championship was Ferrari's fault more than his. Ferrari are acutely aware of this fact.

As stated previously, you are not unlucky over two seasons and can't keep blaming the team. There's only one logical conclusion you can draw. Even Michael Schumacher said that if Lewis Hamilton hadn't been champion in 2008 with what had gone before it would have raised serious question marks about him. So it is true of Massa.

[Giblet]

Ferrari dropped the ball on Felipe more than once. His loss of the championship was Ferrari's fault more than his. Ferrari are acutely aware of this fact.

As stated previously, you are not unlucky over two seasons and can't keep blaming the team. There's only one logical conclusion you can draw. Even Michael Schumacher said that if Lewis Hamilton hadn't been champion in 2008 with what had gone before it would have raised serious question marks about him. So it is true of Massa.

actually bad luck can span more than one season, and massa has never blamed the team. They let him down with delivery of a good car. Schumi had hardly any mechanical faults, but massa gets many.

The spring hitting him cmon luck is a serious player in f1. He might gave dominated kimi this year we will never know.

[segedunum]

actually bad luck can span more than one season, and massa has never blamed the team. They let him down with delivery of a good car. Schumi had hardly any mechanical faults, but massa gets many.

He doesn't get many mechanical problems at all. Raikkonen has had a few, but not many and they've been on a par with what Massa has had. If Massa had had half a dozen mechanical problems as Raikkonen did in 2005 then you could make that argument but it's not a plausible explanation for why he's always fallen short.

The spring hitting him cmon luck is a serious player in f1. He might gave dominated kimi this year we will never know.

What's more interesting is what Raikkonen did when Massa was out of the picture.

[vall]

If Alonso is so good technically than why has the Renault been so bad the last 2 years? To the point where they had to fix the race to get any type of results. Said it before and I will continue to say it... The stay puff Michilin man won those 2 WDC's not Fernando Alonso.

And Alonso knows he is NOT the best, that is why He left McLaren, and sacrificed 2 years off his career... It took him less time to realize it than Prost but they both realized that they would never beat their teammate in equal machinery so they must go elsewhere and also demand #1 status... and that is the only way Alonso will be at the top again... but even at the top, he will still not be the best.

why keep discussing Alonso, when this is about Massa?

[Ciro Pabón]

I dont know. I moved the posts about Alonso to a new thread named "Alonso technical level". Enjoy.