Future GM trucks to use active aero in grills

[tok-tokkie]

I am surprised by that. The air could go through the radiator but now that air gets blocked so the effective frontal area is increased & additional air is forced around the sides. I would have expected that to increase the drag on the vehicle. So what if the air escaping into the engine bay (instead of having to go around the outside)has terrible flow conditions to deal with?

[marcush.]

I am surprised by that. The air could go through the radiator but now that air gets blocked so the effective frontal area is increased & additional air is forced around the sides. I would have expected that to increase the drag on the vehicle. So what if the air escaping into the engine bay (instead of having to go around the outside)has terrible flow conditions to deal with?

the idea is to get rid of inner flows which contribute quite significantly to aero drag (and lift).
there wer a lot of jokes going around at that time about the potential fuel savings
with presentations etc.. quite funny stuff actually..Not sure if I can post this stuff...(looks really official with brand logos )..

[twoshots]

Could someone help with translation please?

What is a "small block"? Obviously not the number of cylinder, because V8 is "big" by the standards of most mass produced vehicles.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Small-block#Small-block

[WhiteBlue]

There was a long time in the history of American mobility when it was considered blasphemy to power a land or water going vehicle by anything but a petrol V8.

If you were considering the advantages of diesel engines for ships, boats, trucks, busses or even agricultural tractors your mental health was questioned.

Driving something with less than a V8 was considered pussy or even communist.

[flynfrog]

Not gonna get too fired on second thought...

I'll say 3 things

1. Diesels are internal combustion too
2. Electric cars are a waste of time and effort
3. Come back to down to reality.. and we can talk

don't bother some people don't understand that we have states the size of there country. Any idea what the weight of a battery pack would be that could do the same as the amount of diesel my truck holds?

That´s what hybrids are for

hybrids would be of little use one a heavy loaded truck driving on the highway. You use the brakes maybe once every few hours. If I want more power ill just turn up the boost.

[segedunum]

It's a bit worrying that GM are trumpeting investment in technology that bceame common place 20 years ago in the rest of the world, ie aluminum block and direct injection.

Indeed it is worrying, and it is worrying that they're investing a large sum of money that they actually don't have in it.

Internal combustion engines have moved on in the last couple of decades, and it became much more feasible quite a while ago to start using diesel engines in a lot more vehicle types than twenty years ago as they have seriously improved. To continue to use a V8 petrol engine in a vehicle like a pickup is lunacy, but that's the culture over there. To mention aluminium blocks and injection now is just jaw-dropping. They're decades behind in internal combustion development, nevermind anything new and more exotic.

As for electric development, I see a lot of people covering their ears and telling us all it will never be good enough. However, many people told us that diesel engines would never be good enough to replace petrol several years ago. The technical obstacles to bringing an electric system that is on a par with current engines are quite large, but the advantages in being able to achieve it are undeniable. If you're not spending the R and D and you're not at least looking at creating hybrids now then you're simply going to be completely wiped out as the technology improves over the next decade or so. Diesel-electric has been around for some time, so bringing that to the car industry with something rechargeable was going to be a pretty logical step.

The reality is that GM are bust and are going nowhere fast investing a billion dollars in twenty year old internal combustion technology with an extremely naive attitude towards what fuel efficiency actually means.

[flynfrog]

There was a long time in the history of American mobility when it was considered blasphemy to power a land or water going vehicle by anything but a petrol V8.

If you were considering the advantages of diesel engines for ships, boats, trucks, busses or even agricultural tractors your mental health was questioned.

Driving something with less than a V8 was considered pussy or even communist.

Also at that time we had crap diesel and gasoline was a few pennies a gallon. Not to mention the diesel engines offered were pretty much crap.

If you look at the engines offered keep in mind the Navistar was more expensive than any of the gas engines. The diesels were usually purchased by farmers who could burn off road diesel in them(fuel without road tax)

Code: Select all

232 CID Essex V6 	1982–83 	110 hp (82 kW) 	183 lb·ft (248 N·m) 	
255 CID Windsor V8 	1980–81 	115 hp (86 kW) 	206 lb·ft (279 N·m) 	2bbl
300 CID Straight-6 	1980 	117 hp (87 kW) 	227 lb·ft (308 N·m) 	1bbl
300 CID† Straight-6 	1980 	120 hp (89 kW) 	229 lb·ft (310 N·m) 	1bbl
300 CID Straight-6 	1981–86 	122 hp (91 kW) 	255 lb·ft (346 N·m) 	1bbl
302 CID Windsor V8 	1980–85 	133 hp (99 kW) 	233 lb·ft (316 N·m) 	2bbl
302 CID Windsor V8 	1985–86 	185 hp (138 kW) 	270 lb·ft (366 N·m) 	EFI
351 CID 351M V8 	1980–82 	136 hp (101 kW) 	262 lb·ft (355 N·m) 	2bbl
351 CID Windsor V8 	1980–82 	136 hp (101 kW) 	262 lb·ft (355 N·m) 	2bbl
351 CID Windsor V8 	1983–85 	150 hp (110 kW) 	280 lb·ft (380 N·m) 	2bbl
351 CID HO Windsor V8 	1984–86 	210 hp (160 kW) 	305 lb·ft (414 N·m) 	4bbl
400 CID† 400 V8 	1980–82 	136 hp (101 kW) 	310 lb·ft (420 N·m) 	2bbl
420 CID Navistar diesel V8† 	1983–86 	170 hp (130 kW) 	315 lb·ft (427 N·m) 	IDI
460 CID† 385 V8 	1983–86 	225 hp (168 kW) 	380 lb·ft (515 N·m) 	4bbl

[dumrick]

If you look at the engines offered keep in mind the Navistar was more expensive than any of the gas engines. The diesels were usually purchased by farmers who could burn off road diesel in them(fuel without road tax)

Flynfrog, diesel engines were crap in the 80's around the world. Only high-pressure direct injection and the development of high-pressure, quick-response turbochargers made it competitive.
Only, while the rest of the world buys the best value for money they can, apparently the US buy what's traditional and macho. Perhaps that kind of mentality turned the fabulous american cars of the glory days in the crap they are now.

[flynfrog]

If you look at the engines offered keep in mind the Navistar was more expensive than any of the gas engines. The diesels were usually purchased by farmers who could burn off road diesel in them(fuel without road tax)

Flynfrog, diesel engines were crap in the 80's around the world. Only high-pressure direct injection and the development of high-pressure, quick-response turbochargers made it competitive.
Only, while the rest of the world buys the best value for money they can, apparently the US buy what's traditional and macho. Perhaps that kind of mentality turned the fabulous american cars of the glory days in the crap they are now.

I agree. I was explaining why people would choose a gas engine instead of an oil burner.

Maybe traditional and macho is what people find the best value here? I agree GM is hosed. I personally am done buying anything from them since the huge bailout they took. But they have been in trouble since the 70s they just didnt know it yet.

[dumrick]

Maybe traditional and macho is what people find the best value here?

Sure, I was only trying to figure why american cars became pretty irrelevant for the consumer needs in almost every country of the world except in the US.

[WhiteBlue]

There was a long time in the history of American mobility when it was considered blasphemy to power a land or water going vehicle by anything but a petrol V8.

If you were considering the advantages of diesel engines for ships, boats, trucks, busses or even agricultural tractors your mental health was questioned.

Driving something with less than a V8 was considered pussy or even communist.

Also at that time we had crap diesel and gasoline was a few pennies a gallon. Not to mention the diesel engines offered were pretty much crap.

I deliberately left ships and boats in there. It is quite a compelling application for diesel inboard engines. You cannot believe how many Americans have managed to blow up their petrol driven pleasure cruisers due to petrol fumes in the bilges. Basically works as fuel/air explosives.

The availability of certain fuels is mainly a reaction to the market demand and government policies. The consumer wanted nothing but petrol V8 so any company trying to sell diesel would have been doomed.

The next chapter will be fuel tailored for HCCI. I'm curious where it will appear first.

[flynfrog]

There was a long time in the history of American mobility when it was considered blasphemy to power a land or water going vehicle by anything but a petrol V8.

If you were considering the advantages of diesel engines for ships, boats, trucks, busses or even agricultural tractors your mental health was questioned.

Driving something with less than a V8 was considered pussy or even communist.

Also at that time we had crap diesel and gasoline was a few pennies a gallon. Not to mention the diesel engines offered were pretty much crap.

I deliberately left ships and boats in there. It is quite a compelling application for diesel inboard engines. You cannot believe how many Americans have managed to blow up their petrol driven pleasure cruisers due to petrol fumes in the bilges. Basically works as fuel/air explosives.

I grew up on a lake believe me I know

[flynfrog]

Maybe traditional and macho is what people find the best value here?

Sure, I was only trying to figure why american cars became pretty irrelevant for the consumer needs in almost every country of the world except in the US.

Its because out cost of fuel is much less than yours Americans are more worried about HP and comfort than fuel economy. Believe it or not American car companies sell Americans cars. The European market is secondary. I am not trying to stand up for American car companies. Ive been looking to the Germans my self. I am just explaining the difference in attitudes between the two sides of the pond

[Jersey Tom]

As for electric development, I see a lot of people covering their ears and telling us all it will never be good enough. However, many people told us that diesel engines would never be good enough to replace petrol several years ago. The technical obstacles to bringing an electric system that is on a par with current engines are quite large, but the advantages in being able to achieve it are undeniable.

Just don't agree with you. I don't see any advantage in electric vehicles. Waste of time.

Suppose we switched the world over to electric cars tomorrow. Where's all the electricity coming from? The grid. Just going to burn more coal, more oil, more gas, or more nuclear energy. How "clean" or "environmentally friendly" nuclear power is, is a subject of debate. Otherwise, you're still burning hydrocarbons to get energy... and you're ADDING a step or two in the process which is inherently (by thermodynamics) less efficient than just going straight from chemical power to shaft power. Instead, you're going Chemical -> Shaft -> Electrical -> Shaft.

Plus, there's the whole supply chain and logistics aspect that people seem to forget about. The entire world's transportation system is geared toward liquid fuels. Hundreds of thousands of liquid fuel stations, tankers, distribution networks, etc. Can you imagine the cost, fabrication, demolition, and construction that would be required to convert that ALL over to electric? Something like 120,000 gas stations in the US alone. Not to mention 250 million registered passenger vehicles in the US... the cost to scrap all those out or convert them over is non-trivial.

Gasoline, diesel, and ethanol.. all being liquid fuels, are at least a little more practical in terms of replacement.

[Ted68]

From 2007, why it was dropped who knows?

http://www.thedieselpage.com/duramax/4-5lduramax.htm