Why is nobody discussing Bottas' Halo problems?

[Restomaniac]

It would seem some have rather clarified their position on this thread. And it's not the nicest clarification either.

[Zynerji]

Absolutely ZERO drivers die if they simply stayed out of a 200MPH prototype, pushed to the bleeding edge of adhesion, while trying to bend physics and forces to their will to grab an extra meter of tarmac.

Or, they can be comfortable that enormous amounts of safety systems have been developed, and they are as protected as statistically probable.

They know that they are taking the improbable risks upon themselves.

They still choose to participate of their own free will.

[Manoah2u]

But the last thing we need is another death in the sport, and even less is to see it. what we need is moments like that of Alonso, where he simply walks out and away from the car. Something i wanted to see from Senna in 1994, but never happening. Something that i wanted to see from Ratzenberger in 1994, but never happened. Something i wanted to see from Bianchi, but never happened.

Why dont we just make the run off's huge, so there is nothing to hit, would have saved Roland, Ayrton and Jules.

am i really discussing here with someone who doesn't actually give a rats *ss about human life?

[Manoah2u]

Absolutely ZERO drivers die if they simply stayed out of a 200MPH prototype, pushed to the bleeding edge of adhesion, while trying to bend physics and forces to their will to grab an extra meter of tarmac.

Or, they can be comfortable that enormous amounts of safety systems have been developed, and they are as protected as statistically probable.

They know that they are taking the improbable risks upon themselves.

They still choose to participate of their own free will.

the ignorance of some people and lack of respect for human life is absolutely mind boggling

[NathanOlder]

But the last thing we need is another death in the sport, and even less is to see it. what we need is moments like that of Alonso, where he simply walks out and away from the car. Something i wanted to see from Senna in 1994, but never happening. Something that i wanted to see from Ratzenberger in 1994, but never happened. Something i wanted to see from Bianchi, but never happened.

Why dont we just make the run off's huge, so there is nothing to hit, would have saved Roland, Ayrton and Jules.

am i really discussing here with someone who doesn't actually give a rats *ss about human life?

Oh we wont make run offs any bigger will we. Why not ?? Because every fan will moan like hell. And dont want to see it. So i guess none of them, including yourself care about human life.

If people were really that bothered about the safety of the drivers they would all campaign to have the sport stopped (and there are people that do that). No one here is doing that so I suggest the pair of you get down from your high horse and stop talking nonsense.

The last thing I want to see is someone getting hurt, I struggled to sleep for a few nights after we lost Dan & SuperSic. But you both seem to think you know me well enough to say I'm bloodthirsty and dont care about human life, This is a forum for debates and discussion about the sport we all love so stop insulting people. I'm sick to death of people always taking the morale high ground to insult people and some do it far more than others especially when someone doesnt agree with them.

And Restomaniac, as far as I know WTC and PGA players dont even have a wage for playing golf or tennis, so they are not paid better than F1 drivers. They win prize money and are paid by sponsors. NFL is a dangerous sport, very dangerous infact, they risk their health big time, as do NHL, Boxing is also a great example. (I'm not american, I don't particularly like American sports BUT I respect what they do.) Football players earn such a high wage just purely because they have the money in the sport. They probably have 100 times more fans than F1 so the wages have spiralled out of control.

[Restomaniac]

Why dont we just make the run off's huge, so there is nothing to hit, would have saved Roland, Ayrton and Jules.

am i really discussing here with someone who doesn't actually give a rats *ss about human life?

Oh we wont make run offs any bigger will we. Why not ?? Because every fan will moan like hell. And dont want to see it. So i guess none of them, including yourself care about human life.

If people were really that bothered about the safety of the drivers they would all campaign to have the sport stopped (and there are people that do that). No one here is doing that so I suggest the pair of you get down from your high horse and stop talking nonsense.

The last thing I want to see is someone getting hurt, I struggled to sleep for a few nights after we lost Dan & SuperSic. But you both seem to think you know me well enough to say I'm bloodthirsty and dont care about human life, This is a forum for debates and discussion about the sport we all love so stop insulting people. I'm sick to death of people always taking the morale high ground to insult people and some do it far more than others especially when someone doesnt agree with them.

And Restomaniac, as far as I know WTC and PGA players dont even have a wage for playing golf or tennis, so they are not paid better than F1 drivers. They win prize money and are paid by sponsors. NFL is a dangerous sport, very dangerous infact, they risk their health big time, as do NHL, Boxing is also a great example. (I'm not american, I don't particularly like American sports BUT I respect what they do.) Football players earn such a high wage just purely because they have the money in the sport. They probably have 100 times more fans than F1 so the wages have spiralled out of control.

Im sorry if I offended you.

I'm struggling to understand your POV though.

Halo would make the cars safer I don't think anyone would argue that. This is what I can't understand, how can you be anti-halo and be pro driver safety? It's one of the other seeing that we mentioned the other ways and still F1 cars will 'lose' bits even if we did all we said.
I get the impression you are just transfixed with how it looks.

As for WTC and PGA you are arguing over semantics there as without their sport they don't earn the money.
NFL is dangerous, but as dangerous as travelling at over 200MPH? I used to play amateur Rugby League, now that's a dangerous and brutal sport (It's classed as a collision sport for a reason)with nowhere near the head/body protection of an NFL player. Even I can see that F1 is far more dangerous.

It's as simple as this. Does the Halo make drivers safer? Yes. Therefore should we introduce it on that basis. Yes.

Also I would have NO problems on more run offs. The run offs are not the problem the lack of stewards enforcing the white line track limits are.

[NathanOlder]

As i said before, just because something makes it safer, it doesn't mean we have to have it. I never said the Halo doesn't make it safer, I said it bring other problems, which I was trying to explain to jolle and You and I my friend ended up discussing after jolle disappeared.

So we have almost disagreed over nothing much at all

[Zynerji]

Absolutely ZERO drivers die if they simply stayed out of a 200MPH prototype, pushed to the bleeding edge of adhesion, while trying to bend physics and forces to their will to grab an extra meter of tarmac.

Or, they can be comfortable that enormous amounts of safety systems have been developed, and they are as protected as statistically probable.

They know that they are taking the improbable risks upon themselves.

They still choose to participate of their own free will.

the ignorance of some people and lack of respect for human life is absolutely mind boggling

Ignorance is believing that something that is true is irrelevant because it doesn't fit your narrative.

That would qualify every single one of your posts on this forum.

The drivers choose this life, and the risks involved. Many current drivers have said this already. Why do you ignorantly refuse to acknowledge this fact? Why do you know better than them?

[turbof1]

Let's not choose for extremes, please. When people do that, there's little left to find a middle ground. Think for yourself, if you are believing taking maximum risk for your life is your own choice to maximize performance, and trying to talk against someone who thinks F1 racing should be abolished because it's a risk on someone's health, you are not going to have a meaningful conversation.

There's truth in both: there has to be continuous push for increased safety, while it is also relevant to make sure that that push does not ruin the sport. There's certainly always a compromise in there.

For the record, free will is not necessarily a testament of always making the correct choice. If that was the case, we'd have street races in the middle of London with people who threw their car roofs and seatbelts out to save weight. I think regarding safety in a competitive environment you are better off taking it out of the hands of the competitors and put it in independent hands. Yes, I'll most likely be targetted by Gordon Murray's assassins for making that statement, so if you excuse me I'll be going in hiding now.

[Restomaniac]

Let's not choose for extremes, please. When people do that, there's little left to find a middle ground. Think for yourself, if you are believing taking maximum risk for your life is your own choice to maximize performance, and trying to talk against someone who thinks F1 racing should be abolished because it's a risk on someone's health, you are not going to have a meaningful conversation.

There's truth in both: there has to be continuous push for increased safety, while it is also relevant to make sure that that push does not ruin the sport. There's certainly always a compromise in there.

For the record, free will is not necessarily a testament of always making the correct choice. If that was the case, we'd have street races in the middle of London with people who threw their car roofs and seatbelts out to save weight. I think regarding safety in a competitive environment you are better off taking it out of the hands of the competitors and put it in independent hands. Yes, I'll most likely be targetted by Gordon Murray's assassins for making that statement, so if you excuse me I'll be going in hiding now.

This is a valid point. Sportspeople in general can be fools to themselves. They think the are immortal as young people do.

I speak from a personal level. As a young man I had an 'I'm FINE' attitude and thought I was bulletproof. Today I have a wrecked right knee, left shoulder, right thumb and right ankle and I hobble and limp almost every day at the tender age of 43! As an example I had an ACL reconstruction at 21 and was told that the recovery time was 14 months, I pushed and got back in 11. You have to take the decisions out of the hands of the sportspeople for their own good sometimes.

As another example going back to 'my' other sport of Rugby League. They had to introduce head tests because players were making out they were fine to get back in the pitch when they were still concussed.

[Restomaniac]

As i said before, just because something makes it safer, it doesn't mean we have to have it. I never said the Halo doesn't make it safer, I said it bring other problems, which I was trying to explain to jolle and You and I my friend ended up discussing after jolle disappeared.

So we have almost disagreed over nothing much at all

This is where we disagree. If it makes it safer and doesn't hugely effect the main focus (speed) then I'm all for it. Sometimes we have to take the decision out of the hands of the drivers to save them from themselves.

[Manoah2u]

Absolutely ZERO drivers die if they simply stayed out of a 200MPH prototype, pushed to the bleeding edge of adhesion, while trying to bend physics and forces to their will to grab an extra meter of tarmac.

Or, they can be comfortable that enormous amounts of safety systems have been developed, and they are as protected as statistically probable.

They know that they are taking the improbable risks upon themselves.

They still choose to participate of their own free will.

the ignorance of some people and lack of respect for human life is absolutely mind boggling

Ignorance is believing that something that is true is irrelevant because it doesn't fit your narrative.

That would qualify every single one of your posts on this forum.

The drivers choose this life, and the risks involved. Many current drivers have said this already. Why do you ignorantly refuse to acknowledge this fact? Why do you know better than them?

why do you know better than them?

all those drivers have families, friends. loved ones, even kids.
it's a handfull of drivers who don't generally like the halo and it's mainly because of how it looks, not because they have a problem with increased safety. that is all and there really is nothing more to it.

but go ahead and now label every post as ignorant
atleast i know where it's coming from, geesh.

[NathanOlder]

As i said before, just because something makes it safer, it doesn't mean we have to have it. I never said the Halo doesn't make it safer, I said it bring other problems, which I was trying to explain to jolle and You and I my friend ended up discussing after jolle disappeared.

So we have almost disagreed over nothing much at all

This is where we disagree. If it makes it safer and doesn't hugely effect the main focus (speed) then I'm all for it. Sometimes we have to take the decision out of the hands of the drivers to save them from themselves.

So a simple question for you, and Manoah2u (why dont people use their names as usernames ? seems a little odd saying "manoah to you" and arguing with a guy/girl with maniac in their name about safety is a a bit strange too)

Extending run offs with masses of tarmac, (an extra 50 meters on the outside of every corner will guarantee to make it safer (a fact)) will help safety, why are we not doing it ? If current tracks cant accommodate that, then the tracks are not safe enough. Why have cars slamming in to walls, when it can be open space ?
Do you 2 guys want to see this , simple YES or NO answer. I dont want reasons, or cant decide excuses , just answer me that 1 very simple question please.

[Just_a_fan]

Take it further: not racing in cars will prevent all injuries and deaths caused by racing cars. Fact.

If the aim is to make it 100% safe, then that is the only way. If you aren't aiming for 100% safety, then what is considered to be an acceptable level of "they might still die"? Why is your level of acceptance ok but not that of someone else?

As an aside, the halo wouldn't have saved Senna and it won't save someone in a similar "slim, sharp thing poking in to the helmet" type of accident.

[jjn9128]

Are run off and halo not trying to achieve 2 different things?