2025 United States Grand Prix - COTA, Oct 17 - 19

[f1isgood]

Russell didn't start well and he's also not special when car isn't the best. He has so far shown whenever Mercedes is clearly best he can do something. Otherwise not sure.

Mercedes is also good at stop and go tracks. This is not surprising but Russell should have gotten Piastri today. Wasted opportunity.

Mercedes will be dominant at Vegas.

[purestpurist]

I like Max and even predicted he'd come on strong late in the season because rb knows next year will be a wash, and it's nice to have a third member in the title fight, but I find the way the season's playing out somewhat suspicious. Max's recent success reminds me of when the Mercedes seemed to gain 0.5 s a lap for the last few races in 2021. Or, as others have said, mclaren making questionable decisions following spygate.

Maybe they just gave them the brake bias toy back

[FittingMechanics]

Honestly I think it's just McLaren being unlucky in couple of races. They didn't really fall off that much, it's just that circumstances played out in Verstappen favor.

This race for example had McLaren not run a single lap in the sprint, yet they still qualified P2. Then in the race worst thing happens, Leclerc slides into P2. Norris has to run in dirty air for 80% of the race with having to make two overtakes on Leclerc. Yet he still finishes just 7 seconds behind Verstappen. On a normal weekend Norris either challenges Verstappen most of the race or just wins.

Piastri is a more puzzling case. He seems to have reverted to his 2024 form where he couldn't match Norris in most races.

[AR3-GP]

Honestly I think it's just McLaren being unlucky in couple of races. They didn't really fall off that much, it's just that circumstances played out in Verstappen favor.

This race for example had McLaren not run a single lap in the sprint, yet they still qualified P2. Then in the race worst thing happens, Leclerc slides into P2. Norris has to run in dirty air for 80% of the race with having to make two overtakes on Leclerc. Yet he still finishes just 7 seconds behind Verstappen. On a normal weekend Norris either challenges Verstappen most of the race or just wins.

If Norris needed 50 laps to see off Leclerc in a much slower Ferrari, how was he going to beat Max with a much smaller pace differential? Any thought to that?

[FittingMechanics]

Honestly I think it's just McLaren being unlucky in couple of races. They didn't really fall off that much, it's just that circumstances played out in Verstappen favor.

This race for example had McLaren not run a single lap in the sprint, yet they still qualified P2. Then in the race worst thing happens, Leclerc slides into P2. Norris has to run in dirty air for 80% of the race with having to make two overtakes on Leclerc. Yet he still finishes just 7 seconds behind Verstappen. On a normal weekend Norris either challenges Verstappen most of the race or just wins.

If Norris needed 50 laps to see off Leclerc in a much slower Ferrari, how was he going to beat Max with a much smaller pace differential? Any thought to that?

He wouldn't beat Verstappen today. There is no chance he makes an overtake on Verstappen today. But there would be a chance of undercut (if pitstops don't suck).

But, if they ran a normal sprint, improved their setup as other teams and then they ran the qualy and the race. That is another story.

[f1isgood]

Honestly I think it's just McLaren being unlucky in couple of races. They didn't really fall off that much, it's just that circumstances played out in Verstappen favor.

This race for example had McLaren not run a single lap in the sprint, yet they still qualified P2. Then in the race worst thing happens, Leclerc slides into P2. Norris has to run in dirty air for 80% of the race with having to make two overtakes on Leclerc. Yet he still finishes just 7 seconds behind Verstappen. On a normal weekend Norris either challenges Verstappen most of the race or just wins.

Piastri is a more puzzling case. He seems to have reverted to his 2024 form where he couldn't match Norris in most races.

Red Bull are not miles behind. Verstappen can make the difference when the cars are close. Norris and Piastri are not good at it.

[renault rs26]

Honestly I think it's just McLaren being unlucky in couple of races. They didn't really fall off that much, it's just that circumstances played out in Verstappen favor.

This race for example had McLaren not run a single lap in the sprint, yet they still qualified P2. Then in the race worst thing happens, Leclerc slides into P2. Norris has to run in dirty air for 80% of the race with having to make two overtakes on Leclerc. Yet he still finishes just 7 seconds behind Verstappen. On a normal weekend Norris either challenges Verstappen most of the race or just wins.

Piastri is a more puzzling case. He seems to have reverted to his 2024 form where he couldn't match Norris in most races.

Same story for more than a year. Mclaren drivers are simply not good enough to challenge Verstappen in similar cars. They're making too many small mistakes which allows Max to take the lead and then it's impossible to overtake him unless they have much faster car.

[venkyhere]

Honestly I think it's just McLaren being unlucky in couple of races. They didn't really fall off that much, it's just that circumstances played out in Verstappen favor.

This race for example had McLaren not run a single lap in the sprint, yet they still qualified P2. Then in the race worst thing happens, Leclerc slides into P2. Norris has to run in dirty air for 80% of the race with having to make two overtakes on Leclerc. Yet he still finishes just 7 seconds behind Verstappen. On a normal weekend Norris either challenges Verstappen most of the race or just wins.

If Norris needed 50 laps to see off Leclerc in a much slower Ferrari, how was he going to beat Max with a much smaller pace differential? Any thought to that?

+1
also Max was massaging his tyres through the sector1 snake, intentionally giving up time and trusting his superior sector3 to buy back the loss. He was conserving tyres (both sets), preparing for an attack from Norris, and was driving to a target time. It's often the case with the P1 guy who has a buffer behind him. Same was the case in Singapore, Russel was simply driving to a delta. The 7 seconds is not a meaningful time due to this, and also due to Max losing time lapping backmarkers.
Without an actual fight between them, it's difficult to judge what the 'true pace' difference was.


LeClerc deservedly the Driver of the Day. He not just 'defended' well, he kept his softs alive on heavy fuel load, whilst doing so - that's some amazing skill. I didn't expect him to hang on to P2 for 35-40 laps. I don't think anyone did.
Btw, why didn't LeClerc have to do much LiCo whilst Hamilton had to ? Hamilton did back-off the dirty air from LeClerc and Norris, didn't he ?

[pantherxxx]

You can always tell Red Bull is good when even Yuki can score points. For him finishing 7 means the car is good.

[search]

You can always tell Red Bull is good when even Yuki can score points. For him finishing 7 means the car is good.

still needed a bit of a dirty move to keep Bearman behind, but yeah, he now found some speed on the faster tracks, at least. Probably not enough (and too late) to keep the seat, though - although Hadjar didn't impress either this weekend.

[zeph]

How did Bortoleto tumble down the order?

[Artur Craft]

How did Bortoleto tumble down the order?

Simple, he already started on the back due to a poor qualifying. Then, he was the only one doing 2 stops, which was a horrible strategy.

On another note, if it wasn´t for Norris´s DNF on Zandvoort, he would be leading by now.

[basti313]

If Norris needed 50 laps to see off Leclerc in a much slower Ferrari, how was he going to beat Max with a much smaller pace differential? Any thought to that?

Well, I think in the same way. In the end Lando had 1.6sec pace advantage over Lec when he overtook him. That is massive, that is not normal...Lando needs to fix his overtaking.
But judging pace: I do not think Verstappen had much left in the end, he usually would neither let the gap go down, nor not make a fastest lap attempt. That was very marginal and he was sliding around passing the backmarkers. With Lando on his tail in the first stint he may be either forced to stop even earlier, maybe even completely into nothing with a forced stop to Hard tires, or simply undercut. In the end it would have been the same point with a massive pace advantage.
I think Leclerc saved Ver the win. Lando could overtake one car, but not both.

Piastri is a more puzzling case. He seems to have reverted to his 2024 form where he couldn't match Norris in most races.

Same story for more than a year. Mclaren drivers are simply not good enough to challenge Verstappen in similar cars. They're making too many small mistakes which allows Max to take the lead and then it's impossible to overtake him unless they have much faster car.

Yes, I think that was a very clumsy weekend. The changing wind just made it necessary to adopt every single lap. It made the McLaren as hard to drive as other cars all season. Or maybe last season. So we saw Piastri fall back, doing a Webber. And we see Lando making an error every single lap. The T1 errors all the time...cost him 1.5tenth in Q3...
First I thought he is changing the line to escape the dirty air. But after passing Lec, he stayed on this strange line avoiding the exit curbs. He was just managing to not have the next track limits. The only time Lando really pushed turn 19 was when he did the dive on Leclerc. That was clinical, very nice. But Verstappen took this corner in this way every lap of this race...

You can always tell Red Bull is good when even Yuki can score points. For him finishing 7 means the car is good.

Well, without the crashes it would have been marginal in the points, right? Without Sai taking out Ant and without the move of Bea (no idea who is at fault), he most probably would have ended P10. That being said, people say that Mclaren was compromised because of the Sprint...Hulk was as well, who nearly caught struggling Tsu in the end...so that good point finish was helped by a lot of luck.

[SiLo]

I think we are really seeing the culmination of Mclaren focusing hard on 2026 thinking they have everything in the bag this year, and Red Bull going all out for the WDC this year knowing next year will be a waste.

[FittingMechanics]

If Norris needed 50 laps to see off Leclerc in a much slower Ferrari, how was he going to beat Max with a much smaller pace differential? Any thought to that?

Well, I think in the same way. In the end Lando had 1.6sec pace advantage over Lec when he overtook him. That is massive, that is not normal...Lando needs to fix his overtaking.
But judging pace: I do not think Verstappen had much left in the end, he usually would neither let the gap go down, nor not make a fastest lap attempt. That was very marginal and he was sliding around passing the backmarkers. With Lando on his tail in the first stint he may be either forced to stop even earlier, maybe even completely into nothing with a forced stop to Hard tires, or simply undercut. In the end it would have been the same point with a massive pace advantage.
I think Leclerc saved Ver the win. Lando could overtake one car, but not both.

Lando was catching Verstappen after the cleared Leclerc in the first stint. This was on same tires (mediums) that were damaged by driving in dirty air of Leclerc for many laps and by several attacks. The gap was coming down and then Norris made a mistake (lockup) after which he immediately went to pits. Nothing shows Verstappen had much pace in the bank at that moment.

Then after the pitstops, Lando is out on used softs and Max has new softs. Once again Norris has to fight through Leclerc but after he goes through can match Max pace.

Nothing is obviously guaranteed. It is quite possible Norris wouldn't be able to overtake Max as Max can defend very well and was in a faster car than Leclerc. But the fact is that Leclerc being ahead of Norris made that gap seem larger and that we were did not get an opportunity to see them fight for the win.