Renault R31

[Carlo's]

Developments for R31 in Spa:

However, the team has unlocked some good improvements at the factory and a lot of the new parts - including wings, bodywork and floor updates – will come on tap for the next race at Spa-Francorchamps.

[horse]

I'm surprised that no one has discussed the exploding R31 yet. Here is a vid of the car sidepod blowing out that was posted at f1fanatic.co.uk (link to that post):

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9tF7g3CwK8[/youtube]

Lots of mixed reports of why the engine failed ranging from Nick being on the limiter too long during the pit stop (BBC rumours page) to the exhausts beginning to disintegrate (Ted Kravitz). Apparently the explosion was a nitrogen bottle (although I may have read that on here), I think Ted said an air bottle.

My main point is that surely this shows the exhaust design is not safe for the current regulations. They seem to have increased the risk to drivers, marshals and pit crew by designing a car that appears very marginal on temperature with components that can easily exit the bodywork and injure in the case of fire. As technically interesting as it is, I just don't think the car adheres enough to the safety first principle.

[Giblet]

We can't say it was the FFE that caused it, yet. Fires of this size and have happened to other cars before, and it could have been an oil leak, KERS related, anything.

In some ways the FFE is not as close to the engine and should have less temperature in it, especially if he had been idling for a bit.

The fire also seemed to start behind the driver, and move forward, also pointing away from the FFE.

I thought the biggest danger was the marshals dragging the car into the pit exit, taking up more than half the lane and making a Red Bull, I think Vettel, have to avoid it.

The idea of puling the car in there was fine, but it should have been craned or flat-bedded as it was obviously a move they had not practiced.

[Richard]

I recall there was a picture of a pressure vessel in the sidepod, probably to presurise the coolant. I guess that over heated.

Engine failures are so rare these days, and ires even rarer. Now Renault have had 2 fires while the other teams with Renault engines have had none. That FEE is looking to be a serious design weakness for them.

edit to add .... here's the picture. See page 67 onwards for discussion

[horse]

The fire also seemed to start behind the driver, and move forward, also pointing away from the FFE.

This is just a screen cap from this youtube video, but it looks to me like there is fire from the FEE at this point. (It's at about 50s).

[mep]

I read somewhere that the cause for the fire was a to long pit stop (4 seconds longer) and the driver already applying throttle during that time. Without the airflow during movement the hot exhaust gases heated the carbon up and caused it to inflame.

The explosion could have been a KERS battery. Batteries usually don't like heat very much. 50°C is already much for some.

[Giblet]

Is that not the fire from the detonated engine just coming out the opening?

Any car fire the exhaust is an issue, but I still think its too early to blame the FFE, or to say the FFE is inherently more dangerous.

[Richard]

Fair point Giblet. The question is whether Renault's 2 fires have been engine fires exiting out of the exhaust, or fires started by the exhaust.

[mep]

Fair point Giblet. The question is whether Renault's 2 fires have been engine fires exiting out of the exhaust, or fires started by the exhaust.

This doesnt make a difference at all to the result which is a fire close to the cockpit.

[ringo]

The exhuasts are just pipes. They aren't responsible for the fire.
It began from the back of the car.
It has to be related to some seal breaking and oil catching fire. There has to be some kind of fuel to a fire.
Hot pipes that are insulated cannot cause things to burn.

The only way the pipes come in, is if there is a crack and hot gas is spewing onto something that melts and some kind of "fuel" suck as lube oil ignites.

It's more their cooling package or seals or adhesives than anything else.

Anyway new updates for Spa:

Heidfeld believes that, on the back of recent struggles, it is essential these updates do bring what is promised, as the outfit bids to try and retake Mercedes GP for fourth in the constructors' championship.

"If it doesn't work, then we are in trouble," Heidfeld told AUTOSPORT about the major update package coming for Belgium. "Let's hope for the best.

"I feel it finally has to work because we have been saying for some races now that we understand the problem, and that we have moved forward. This will be the first time that we really have something big.

"Since we found out our problems we have made some small things. But we have made some big improvements in the wind tunnel now, and it was not that easy to bring all the parts to the circuit yet. So Spa is a very important place for us to go in the right direction."

from Autosport.

I think the can get mercedes. The W02 is a sitting duck and has hit a brick wall.
The r31 has a few tricks left up its sleeves. I Hope it's top 7 in Spa.

[horse]

It has to be related to some seal breaking and oil catching fire. There has to be some kind of fuel to a fire.

I don't understand how a seal breaks because the driver spent too long at full throttle before being released (which is the excuse given for the fire by the team principle). Surely it has to be something triggered by an overheating event if that was the cause?

Also, I've seen numerous drivers burying the throttle waiting to go out on a slow pitstop and never a fire as a result.

[ringo]

All the materials on the car can probably withstand overheating. I mean like in excess of the optimal engine temperature.
If they do overheat in that respect, then there is no basis for a fire to start, as these materials probably do not combust at such relatively low temperatures.

If a seal broke while nick was on the track, it may not leak. But if he comes into the pits and the shaft or whatever it's sealing stops spinning, then that seal will run fluid. It's when the car settles that the leak runs down into the bodywork and when that is couple to a stationary car that doesn't have any air blowing through it then that could be grounds for that leak to ignite, especially if it runs by the manifolds, which seem to be close to the floor.

[horse]

Ok, it seems feasible, although the teams explanation was obtuse to say the least.

I think mep says it best though in that the design of the car seems to encourage fire to come forward around the driver, which has to be bad.

[marcush.]

ha ..in automotive terms this was a "thermal event" Frankly speaking the cars sit fairly long in the grid at high revs soaring temps so you need to layout your systems to survive this and you need to make it survive a start from the pitlane ...or a 10sec stop and go ..or or or..all this again is bs aired by Renault..the car was already toast when Nick came in for the stop.
They had the second time this year Heidfelds car catching fire for a car related issue end of story.I cannot see what Heidfeld could have done to avoid it and Nick is the guy admitting mistakes by himself open and instantly.

Fact is Lotus has not been able to produce the upgrade package in time for whatever reason .They claim to have found big gains in the windtunnel ..but any proof of their research correlating to track behaviour is not there ,judging from the trouble ALL their competitors have suffered after making changes to their Tunnel equipment I doubt the results will translate seamless into laptime.
they can be happy to retain 5th and this is a result not owed to Heidfeld not performing ..but maybe a loss of technical expertise -Bob Bell- ??

[woohoo]

That, and a driver who can tell where to go with the car. (ie. is it working or not)...