2 stroke thread (with occasional F1 relevance!)

[Muniix]

P, perhaps this link may be of interest/value..
http://www.bucketracing.blogspot.com.au ... s-aka.html

I was going to suggest you search for published papers on cfd research identifying the relationship. They may have models you can use. Unfortunately I got distracted, didn't follow my normal "What's important now" helping someone is more important than correcting biased opinions. Now their negatively affecting others with their opinions.

Are you by any chance - actually 'Mudflap', too Marc?
Anyhow..
..both of you need to chill out, & stay on topic.. sans needless additions of personally directed, rancorous commentary..

No a analysis of our grammar would identify that we are separate individuals who both have fact based discussions.

People with non fact based opinions have done more damage to society and need to be educated. So they stop negatively effecting us all.

Engines, motorcycles, etc would be much better if they were developed using known facts and knowledge. The World would be a better place, due diligence based on facts eliminating bad decisions.

We can contribute to this process in this discussion thread if we stick to known facts and eliminate the BS.

So please let's all contribute to a better world.

[J.A.W.]

I was going to suggest you search for published papers on cfd research identifying the relationship. They may have models you can use. Unfortunately I got distracted, didn't follow my normal "What's important now" helping someone is more important than correcting biased opinions. Now their negatively affecting others with their opinions.

Are you by any chance - actually 'Mudflap', too Marc?
Anyhow..
..both of you need to chill out, & stay on topic.. sans needless additions of personally directed, rancorous commentary..

No a analysis of our grammar would identify that we are separate individuals who both have fact based discussions.

People with non fact based opinions have done more damage to society and need to be educated. So they stop negatively effecting us all.

Well, Marc, notwithstanding the advent of algorithms that allow plagiarists to circumvent academic usage norms,
the common 'troll-like' emotive content you both employ is disruptive & counter-productive..
..& belies your face-value claims..
..so - if you have a diagnosed disorder.. ..& are 'hamstrung' in self-awareness, posting protocol-wise..
..try & get someone with a grasp on propriety.. ..to preview your posts, before submitting them, will you..

[gruntguru]

I wouldn't put it past the F1 engineer to 'accidentally' leak oil into the combustion chamber to produce more heat during combustion. I would! even if my personal preference is not to polute, It would be my last way to gain power.

Talking of oil consumption...
Would a turbocharged EU4 compliant 2005 4T using engine oil at the rate of 2% of fuel under Lambda control (no air mass flow sensor) sense the oil as fuel and reduce fuel flow accordingly?

Yes.

Would the lowered octane rating cause the timing to be retarded? If yes to the above, would a more modern engine strategy prevent the above?

If the engine, is fitted with a knock sensor, was operating close to the knock limit and octane was reduced - the timing would be retarded. Some management systems will also reduce the boost once retard reaches a threshold.

[J.A.W.]

I wouldn't put it past the F1 engineer to 'accidentally' leak oil into the combustion chamber to produce more heat during combustion. I would! even if my personal preference is not to polute, It would be my last way to gain power.

Talking of oil consumption...

Would the lowered octane rating cause the timing to be retarded? If yes to the above, would a more modern engine strategy prevent the above?

If the engine, is fitted with a knock sensor, was operating close to the knock limit and octane was reduced - the timing would be retarded. Some management systems will also reduce the boost once retard reaches a threshold.

However, it is reasonable to assume in the instance of F1 usage, that such oil is predicated to improve output..
.. likely by a combination of lube-borne improvements..
.. in fuel combustion-power values/pressure sealing/mechanical lubricity-friction reduction, & etc..

[Muniix]

Are you by any chance - actually 'Mudflap', too Marc?
Anyhow..
..both of you need to chill out, & stay on topic.. sans needless additions of personally directed, rancorous commentary..

No a analysis of our grammar would identify that we are separate individuals who both have fact based discussions.

People with non fact based opinions have done more damage to society and need to be educated. So they stop negatively effecting us all.

Well, Marc, notwithstanding the advent of algorithms that allow plagiarists to circumvent academic usage norms,
the common 'troll-like' emotive content you both employ is disruptive & counter-productive..
..& belies your face-value claims..
..so - if you have a diagnosed disorder.. ..& are 'hamstrung' in self-awareness, posting protocol-wise..
..try & get someone with a grasp on propriety.. ..to preview your posts, before submitting them, will you..

I use simulation to remove the effects of confirmation bias. As a developer who is constantly improving my craft I know people are not good at programming computers we are good at programming people, some use this in negative ways, some of us try to improve the world.

We can contribute to this process in this discussion thread if we stick to known facts and eliminate the BS.

So please let's all contribute to a better world. And call out the BS when it comes up. Fact checking is important, no one should get upset at learning new information. This appears to be the real issue, people getting emotional at information that contradicts their opinions.

[J.A.W.]

No a analysis of our grammar would identify that we are separate individuals who both have fact based discussions.

People with non fact based opinions have done more damage to society and need to be educated. So they stop negatively effecting us all.

Well, Marc, notwithstanding the advent of algorithms that allow plagiarists to circumvent academic usage norms,
the common 'troll-like' emotive content you both employ is disruptive & counter-productive..
..& belies your face-value claims..
..so - if you have a diagnosed disorder.. ..& are 'hamstrung' in self-awareness, posting protocol-wise..
..try & get someone with a grasp on propriety.. ..to preview your posts, before submitting them, will you..

I use simulation to remove the effects of confirmation bias. As a developer who is constantly improving my craft I know people are not good at programming computers we are good at programming people, some use this in negative ways, some of us try to improve the world.

We can contribute to this process in this discussion thread if we stick to known facts and eliminate the BS.

So please let's all contribute to a better world. And call out the BS when it comes up. Fact checking is important, no one should get upset at learning new information.

'Proof of the pudding' time then Marc, you can prove your claim - if you "eliminate" your own troll-like emotive "BS"..

[Muniix]

Well, Marc, notwithstanding the advent of algorithms that allow plagiarists to circumvent academic usage norms,
the common 'troll-like' emotive content you both employ is disruptive & counter-productive..
..& belies your face-value claims..
..so - if you have a diagnosed disorder.. ..& are 'hamstrung' in self-awareness, posting protocol-wise..
..try & get someone with a grasp on propriety.. ..to preview your posts, before submitting them, will you..

I use simulation to remove the effects of confirmation bias. As a developer who is constantly improving my craft I know people are not good at programming computers we are good at programming people, some use this in negative ways, some of us try to improve the world.

We can contribute to this process in this discussion thread if we stick to known facts and eliminate the BS.

So please let's all contribute to a better world. And call out the BS when it comes up. Fact checking is important, no one should get upset at learning new information.

'Proof of the pudding' time then Marc, you can prove your claim - if you "eliminate" your own troll-like emotive "BS"..

When people stop repeating falsehoods. I will stop calling them out. It is everyones right, no duty to do this.

I wouldn't even think of using algorithms to decieve. Not my style.

I should not be needing to point out falsehoods, if people think is emotive that is an opinion.

[gruntguru]

Which has a huge amount of ring friction area, 3 ring packs with 1 huge bore.

From a friction point of view, this needs to be viewed as a two cylinder engine (two pistons sharing a cylinder) - 2 ring packs - nothing unusual there. The third "huge" piston operates at low pressures (think low ring friction) and is constrained by a shared set of crosshead bearings (no skirt friction). This piston is the scavenge pump - a necessary evil for two-strokes and is cleverly integrated to probably consume less energy than the ubiquitous roots blower.
.

It has reduced turbulence at start of combustion due to reduced piston velocity towards TDC compared to mean piston velocity. This slows combustion significantly requiring the engine to run at higher speeds and greater losses consuming more fuel less effiently.

Nonsense. This is a Diesel engine. Appropriate turbulence levels near TDC get designed-in, typically using squish.
.

Slower combustion causes higher heat loss, Lower thermodynamic efficiency.

To be more accurate combustion occurring later (measured in crankshaft degrees) causes lower TE ie a slower piston motion near TDC actually increases thermodynamic efficiency.
.

All those large big end bearings have clearly not been through any size or friction optimisation, the bigend larger than the mains, insane more excessive friction and masses increasing inertial forces combined with its need to run at higher speeds this is terrible design.

Its not a detailed design, its a concept design.
.

Rating. 0 out of 5, fail, try again

As a concept: 4 out of 5. It solves many of the issues present in prior OP designs. Congratulations Manolis.

[J.A.W.]

We can contribute to this process in this discussion thread if we stick to known facts and eliminate the BS...

When people stop repeating falsehoods. I will stop calling them out. It is everyones right, no duty to do this.

No Marc.. your style of ad hominem abuse is trolling.. you require the "calling... out" - on this, & you have been..
.. so be advised, if you cannot cease & desist - from such flagrant disregard for forum propriety..
..you will inevitably be sanctioned, accordingly..

[Muniix]

We can contribute to this process in this discussion thread if we stick to known facts and eliminate the BS...

When people stop repeating falsehoods. I will stop calling them out. It is everyones right, no duty to do this.

No Marc.. your style of ad hominem abuse is trolling.. you require the "calling... out" - on this, & you have been..
.. so be advised, if you cannot cease & desist - from such flagrant disregard for forum propriety..
..you will inevitably be sanctioned, accordingly..

How do you suggest I raise technical errors, incorrect assumptions or opinions that contradicts the known facts? So as not to offend people's sensativities?

The 'curtain' issue would be a good example. Full vs half cylinder CFD?

[J.A.W.]

No you have to stop intentionally misrepresenting the facts and lying in this forum.

A survey of people discussing your behavior has given the following replies, Idiot, waste of space, Oxygen thief, M.r.n, Fool...

This..^..
..don't do it..

[Muniix]

Hello all.

Can somebody from this forum ask, in behalf of me, Mudflap to explain why he did not yet revealed the “certain forum”?

Is it secret, confidential or what?


In case the US1,000$ offered to him are not enough, what about US2,010$?



With US2,010$ an inventor can:

File a US patent application (Filing, Search and Examination fee: US730$ in total, for small entity and “utility patent”, i.e. the expensive one),

Receive (typically after some 3 years) a US patent (for the granting of the US patent an issue fee of US480$ must be paid),

Maintain his US patent in force for seven years after the granting (a US800$ maintenance fee must be paid 3.5 years after the granting and covers the next 3.5 years).


Total cost for the first 10 years (3 years till the granting of the patent, plus 3.5 years till the first maintenance fee to be paid, plus another 3.5 years till the next maintenance fee to be required): US2.010$



If this is still not enough, how much it costs to know the “certain forum” he was talking about?


PS.
I think that the above list of costs may be of value for some readers.

Thanks
Manolis Pattakos

If I remember correctly the forum he's referring to, the wording lead me to the same opinion only on reading it again did it appear it may have meant the opposite. It was difficult to follow rant about engine research funding.

Anyhow if you build a head for my engine, which is very similar to a Ducati Super Quadro engine in the Panigale, being 120.65 mm x 62.25 that still allows the engine to fit into the bike with a near horizontal layout like the Ducati Supermono and it provides greater normally aspirated trapped air mass over the engine speed range I will license it and donate a reasonable sum to various charities exceeding your original bet.

This would be a win win situation for everyone.

Let the best technology win, what could be more pure and productive, thermodynamic efficiency also plays part of the decision. So bsfc and power, emissions, cooling, mass etc all the usual suspects get weighed into the winning solution.

Then we'll have the most effective single cylinder mild hybrid 711 cc motorcycle engine on the planet.
I'll make the cylinder housing to fit crankcases. Or if you prefer the 393cc version with 98 mm bore. Rear swingarm length is important don't want to reduce that length for obvious reasons.

Thanks Marc

[Muniix]

No you have to stop intentionally misrepresenting the facts and lying in this forum.

A survey of people discussing your behavior has given the following replies, Idiot, waste of space, Oxygen thief, M.r.n, Fool...

This..^..
..don't do it..

When someone​ has caused you to loose a few hours of your life I will never get back. I added that in an edit on realising I had effectively dealt with this exact issue in previous posts multiple times before, and he had repeated the same falsehood again. It was about 4am we all went outside for a smoke. I had missed sleep subsequently reducing my quality. It's a human trait. I should not have even needed to post any of it had he not repeated falsehoods. I've stopped reading up on latest Diesel combustion research about a year ago, but pretty sure turbulence assists heat conduction improving combustion speed and assists emissions.

[J.A.W.]

...This would be a win win situation for everyone.

Let the best technology win, what could be more pure and productive, thermodynamic efficiency also plays part of the decision. So bsfc and power, emissions, cooling, mass etc all the usual suspects get weighed into the winning solution.

Then we'll have the most effective single cylinder mild hybrid 711 cc motorcycle engine on the planet.
I'll make the cylinder housing to fit crankcases. Or if you prefer the 393cc version with 98 mm bore. Rear swingarm length is important don't want to reduce that length for obvious reasons.

Thanks Marc

Is it a 2-stroke?

If it aint, then its a lose-lose - on this thread..

You'd be better off doing a single cylinder* bike utilizing a 50hp/566cc 1/6th fraction of the BRP/Evinrude E-TEC G2 mill..

& Manolis just happens to have an innovative CVT design to suit it..

* Or an 1132cc twin, if you want a bigger machine..

[henry]

We can contribute to this process in this discussion thread if we stick to known facts and eliminate the BS...

When people stop repeating falsehoods. I will stop calling them out. It is everyones right, no duty to do this.

No Marc.. your style of ad hominem abuse is trolling.. you require the "calling... out" - on this, & you have been..
.. so be advised, if you cannot cease & desist - from such flagrant disregard for forum propriety..
..you will inevitably be sanctioned, accordingly..

How do you suggest I raise technical errors, incorrect assumptions or opinions that contradicts the known facts? So as not to offend people's sensativities?

The 'curtain' issue would be a good example. Full vs half cylinder CFD?

Perhaps I can help.

When you make a factual claim to contradict what you see is an error describe what problem the error causes and if appropriate give some numbers. Then cite the source for this knowledge.

So in your example you could say what errors half cylinder simulations create, incorrect values for bsfc, power, friction, noise, hot spots....whatever you think important. Give a number for the magnitude of that error. And refer to a paper or two that caused you to come to your conclusion.