Ferrari SF23

A place to discuss the characteristics of the cars in Formula One, both current as well as historical. Laptimes, driver worshipping and team chatter do not belong here.
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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Cs98 wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 19:42
Have Ferrari ran the single element beam wing before?
I believe not

Vinlarr89
Vinlarr89
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Joined: 27 Feb 2023, 14:32

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Wow! That looks fast!
Looks like the diffuser hasn’t changed. Potentially waiting for the next race weekend

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Ferrari SF23

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SiLo wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 17:46
These tunnels are huge compared to the RB19. Fantastic pic!
Yes, it's a completely different philosophy. And, I have to say, I saw some details on RB19 that I haven't noticed before and will try to work out what's going on there.

scuderiabrandon wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 19:39
https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/pho ... ul/074.jpg

The upper element seems to me to be creating some downwash where it meet the endplate. Diffuser seems unchanged in this photo
On the first photos it wasn't 100% clear, but from this view I'd say this upper element is there for structural purposes and endplate lateral stability. It's aerodynamic effect is minimal, close to non-existent - both in terms of drag and downforce.
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

matteosc
matteosc
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Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 17:07

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Vanja #66 wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 20:04
scuderiabrandon wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 19:39
https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/pho ... ul/074.jpg

The upper element seems to me to be creating some downwash where it meet the endplate. Diffuser seems unchanged in this photo
On the first photos it wasn't 100% clear, but from this view I'd say this upper element is there for structural purposes and endplate lateral stability. It's aerodynamic effect is minimal, close to non-existent - both in terms of drag and downforce.
Do you think this is related to the structural issues that they were having with the single pilon in preseason testing?

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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Vanja #66 wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 20:04
SiLo wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 17:46
These tunnels are huge compared to the RB19. Fantastic pic!
Yes, it's a completely different philosophy. And, I have to say, I saw some details on RB19 that I haven't noticed before and will try to work out what's going on there.

scuderiabrandon wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 19:39
https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/pho ... ul/074.jpg

The upper element seems to me to be creating some downwash where it meet the endplate. Diffuser seems unchanged in this photo
On the first photos it wasn't 100% clear, but from this view I'd say this upper element is there for structural purposes and endplate lateral stability. It's aerodynamic effect is minimal, close to non-existent - both in terms of drag and downforce.
That seems totally logical, why didn't I think of that.

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scuderiabrandon
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Joined: 11 Feb 2023, 08:42

Re: Ferrari SF23

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matteosc wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 20:13
Vanja #66 wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 20:04
scuderiabrandon wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 19:39
https://motorsport.nextgen-auto.com/pho ... ul/074.jpg

The upper element seems to me to be creating some downwash where it meet the endplate. Diffuser seems unchanged in this photo
On the first photos it wasn't 100% clear, but from this view I'd say this upper element is there for structural purposes and endplate lateral stability. It's aerodynamic effect is minimal, close to non-existent - both in terms of drag and downforce.
Do you think this is related to the structural issues that they were having with the single pilon in preseason testing?
Yes that would be its exact purpose, otherwise it would'nt be there. They obviously wanted to run a single element beam wing but are aware of the structural limitations of their rear wing.

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Ferrari SF23

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matteosc wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 20:13
Do you think this is related to the structural issues that they were having with the single pilon in preseason testing?
Could be.

scuderiabrandon wrote:
06 Jul 2023, 20:19
That seems totally logical, why didn't I think of that.
I'm not saying it's 100% like that, there could be some yaw effect of the diagonal elements towards the gearbox, but they still look really small for anything other than being an aero-shaped brace :)
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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gordonthegun
254
Joined: 28 Mar 2019, 23:33
Location: Monza, Italy.

Re: Ferrari SF23

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The diffuser is part of the floor and had already been changed in Austria (see below) where all the floor had undergone major modifications.
Almost impossible (and senseless) to build another one for this race weekend.

Image



"The new beam wing on the Ferrari SF-23 EVO for Silverstone.

Ferrari aerodynamicists confirm that "the design is very different" compared to the previous ones. As for the diffuser, in reality it has already undergone modifications in Austria."

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vorticism
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Joined: 01 Mar 2022, 20:20

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Pretty cool to see this development of the beam wing allowances. The upper element is T-wing levels of miniscule. Recall the T-wings were not structural, strictly they were aero elements that were apparently worth having. So Ferrari might be previewing a development path for other teams in the future. Single main beam + T-wing 2.0.

Dots on this part... It looks quite flexible. Has any team yet been dinged by the FIA optical deflection detectors?

Edit- Are those pressure taps on the rear surface?

Image
Last edited by vorticism on 07 Jul 2023, 03:47, edited 1 time in total.
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AR3-GP
AR3-GP
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Joined: 06 Jul 2021, 01:22

Re: Ferrari SF23

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vorticism wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 00:30
Dots on this part... It looks quite flexible. Has any team yet been dinged by the FIA optical deflection detectors?
I get the impression that the dots are there for show until a team starts complaining privately. The FIA hasn't even the capacity to monitor track limits, never mind the flex of a wing...
A lion must kill its prey.

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gordonthegun
254
Joined: 28 Mar 2019, 23:33
Location: Monza, Italy.

Re: Ferrari SF23

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I think that the lower beam-wing works closely with the diffuser, it's a kind of extension of it and maybe it serves to find a diffuser/floor stall with DRS open (as it is thought to happen for Red Bull).

Image

Image

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Vanja #66
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Joined: 19 Mar 2012, 16:38

Re: Ferrari SF23

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vorticism wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 00:30
Pretty cool to see this development of the beam wing allowances. The upper element is T-wing levels of miniscule. Recall the T-wings were not structural, strictly they were aero elements that were apparently worth having. So Ferrari might be previewing a development path for other teams in the future. Single main beam + T-wing 2.0.

Dots on this part... It looks quite flexible. Has any team yet been dinged by the FIA optical deflection detectors?

Edit- Are those pressure taps on the rear surface?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0YHl0HXsAI ... ame=medium
T-wings were worth having because they generated small efficient load that teams weren't expecting to be able to have. Every efficient aero load is usually put on the car :) T-wings were limited to 50mm chord and 800mm (I think) span. In this case, the top wing could have had a lot bigger chord if they wanted more load and it would have been basically as efficient as this because of endplate effect. Or they could have made a slightly bigger beam wing which would drive the floor a bit harder too for extra boost and forget about this tiny top wing altogether. So in this combination of position and size, such as it is, I consider it's primary role as a brace and then an aero load device.

Yeah, those look like pressure taps to me as well. Tiny! :mrgreen:

gordonthegun wrote:
07 Jul 2023, 09:34
I think that the lower beam-wing works closely with the diffuser, it's a kind of extension of it and maybe it serves to find a diffuser/floor stall with DRS open (as it is thought to happen for Red Bull).
It doesn't happen, that myth was busted. :) All beam wings are essentially floor extensions with slats to energise the flow and boost the floor downforce
And they call it a stall. A STALL!

#DwarvesAreNaturalSprinters
#BlessYouLaddie

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ing.
63
Joined: 15 Mar 2021, 20:00

Re: Ferrari SF23

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The upper “beam” wing, with its cranked, gull-wing shape is anything but a beam, and I would expect it to offers limited lateral or vertical stiffness.

As such, it’s most likely used to generate a small amount of DF but may mostly be used to condition the flow to the rear and support the main beam wing or the RW itself.

CaribouBread
CaribouBread
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Joined: 29 Mar 2022, 08:37

Re: Ferrari SF23

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Flowviz on the new beam wing config



Image
Image

matteosc
matteosc
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Joined: 11 Sep 2012, 17:07

Re: Ferrari SF23

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What are those two "stickers" before and after the upper beam wing? Pressure sensors?
It looks like they are verifying the aerodynamic effect of this new element.

As a side note, I think they did not list any change for this race, because these elements were already brought to a previous race.