djos wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 13:00
Willy wrote: ↑09 Jul 2023, 12:56
A driver is not top level if he can't handle a bad car, especially when his team mate has.
You can claim that till the cows come home, doesnt make it true.
It is true though. Since when have top level drivers like Prost or Senna or pre-comeback Schumacher or Hamilton or Alonso or Verstappen struggled against their teammates because they didn't like the car characteristics?! At worst, they were only slightly behind even when they didn't like the car characteristics.
djos wrote: ↑10 Jul 2023, 00:26
Oh, and how did Kimi Raikkonen do in his NASCAR races? He must not be very good either!
NASCAR is irrelevant to Formula One, however Raikkonen's evenness with Massa and deficit to Alonso and Vettel suggests Raikkonen was
never truly top level in Formula One (at least not beyond the McLaren).
When was an actual top level driver like Alonso ever beaten by a teammate in the way Raikkonen was? Alonso never had such a big deficit in pace to
any teammate, as Raikkonen had to Alonso.
djos wrote: ↑11 Jul 2023, 06:25
ringo wrote: ↑11 Jul 2023, 06:11
I do not think he is a bad driver, he just had 2 bad years.
Considering Daniel got every single one of his F1 GP wins in non-dominant cars, I'd suggest anyone who thinks he is has rocks in their heads.
The complaint isn't that Daniel is incapable get in and drive a car well at times, the complaint is that
Ricciardo lacks engineering & technical understanding compared to the bookish sim-racing technically-minded drivers like Verstappen, Russell, Norris and Piastri.
Ricciardo called Verstappen a "nerd" for obsessing about such things, but the proof is that Norris and Piastri (almost immedately) are able to drive the McLaren as the engineers instruct them so as to maximise its strengths and minimise its weakness (and therefore literally find more grip) yet Ricciardo was not able to do so, despite
repeated tuition on how to drive the McLaren correctly.
Instead Ricciardo said things like: "confused, the lap felt good, I felt like I was on the limit, I don't know why the lap time wasn't there". I.e., just driving it like a Red Bull or Renault and hoping for the best. Indeed Ricciardo was on the limit of grip, it's just that Norris literally had more grip because he was driving the car in a such a way that it produces more grip (e.g., with the right aero attitude, more braking and traction in a straight-line where the McLaren doesn't lose downforce unlike in yaw).
By contrast,
within a handful of test sessions and race meetings, Piastri had an average qualifying deficit of less than a tenth to Norris. For Piastri it was almost trivial to adopt the correct driving style, something that Ricciardo was unable to do so over two whole seasons.
Piastri was also praised for excellent simulator work at Alpine, even though the Alpine had different handling characteristics than the McLaren.
Would other top level drivers like Senna or Alonso
really say "Confused, I don't know why I am slow" as Ricciardo did while being 1s/lap slower than their teammate for nearly the Monaco Grand Prix weekend? It seems doubtful...
McLaren were unhappy with Ricciardo's performance and inability to drive the car as McLaren instructed time and time again to little effect. The car that recently finished P2 & P4 at Silverstone still has the same 'problems', but it shows McLaren did not need to waste time and money "fixing" that in the pursuit of adding performance (albeit low speed is still a struggle for McLaren, the opposite to their high speed -- low yaw angle? -- strengths.)
djos wrote: ↑10 Jul 2023, 00:26
Having a driving style that suits a particular car's handling traits, can not be underestimated!
Top level drivers are usually able to adjust their driving style to suit the car's handling traits.
