2024 Oracle Red Bull Racing F1 Team

[Vanja #66]

Let's move all Newey-related discussions to the appropriate thread just created --> viewtopic.php?t=31720

Please continue there, thank you!

[Cs98]

Yeah that’s probably fair but think Wouter breaking down past tenths of his Horner statement is a very very big leap

Indeed. My point is simply that such statements are signed off and released by the company as part of the negotiation, it's not an exposé into the current situation, it's about preserving image.

Agree - and I did say too I think people are reading too much into Markos name missing

The only person I would trust as to reasons he left would be from Newey himself- even then I don’t think Newey would ever talk even if theee was a major falling out really doesn’t seem like him. I’m not really that trusting if any leaks as to the motives to his departure too many are self serving

He does talk, behind the scenes, to friends like Eddie Jordan who isn't exactly known for keeping secrets. Those statements and feelings inevitably trickle their way to journalists. This is how most news in F1 becomes public. And yes, there are some tabloid publications who publish garbage rumours, but when all the reputable journalists are saying the same thing you best listen.

[Watto]

Indeed. My point is simply that such statements are signed off and released by the company as part of the negotiation, it's not an exposé into the current situation, it's about preserving image.

Agree - and I did say too I think people are reading too much into Markos name missing

The only person I would trust as to reasons he left would be from Newey himself- even then I don’t think Newey would ever talk even if theee was a major falling out really doesn’t seem like him. I’m not really that trusting if any leaks as to the motives to his departure too many are self serving

He does talk, behind the scenes, to friends like Eddie Jordan who isn't exactly known for keeping secrets. Those statements and feelings inevitably trickle their way to journalists. This is how most news in F1 becomes public. And yes, there are some tabloid publications who publish garbage rumours, but when all the reputable journalists are saying the same thing you best listen.

That’s fair and Eddie would be one I’d trust but I think likely this statement was Horner and there has been a bunch of Austrian leaks too that I think are self serving given the power struggle.

The whole fiasco reminds me of a story I followed some years ago a doping scandal from that was a leak a thon/ character assassination I think it very similar to how this story has developed - even now I don’t think anyone knows the truth - plenty of NDAs etc involved was a very very messy story I don’t think was ever handled well from anyone involved

[organic]

Jos Verstappen:“The team is in danger of falling apart. I was already afraid of that earlier this year. It is important for internal peace that the key figures remain on board. That is not the case now. Newey is leaving and earlier this year it also looked like Helmut would be sent away. That is not good for the future.”

[f1isgood]

Jos Verstappen:“The team is in danger of falling apart. I was already afraid of that earlier this year. It is important for internal peace that the key figures remain on board. That is not the case now. Newey is leaving and earlier this year it also looked like Helmut would be sent away. That is not good for the future.”

Jos is obviously only worried about his son, who can anyways move somewhere else. If he is worried about the team, he would just shut up and not run his mouth because all that adds is unwanted media attention and playing his role in removing Horner, add to the general toxicity he brings that someone else pointed out.

[Vanja #66]

If Jos kept to himself, like he should have, none of this would have happened. Instead, an internal investigation which already cleared Horner of any wrongdoing would have remained internal and things would have been much more quiet. But clearly, he did not act alone and it was approved by someone from the top, either Mateschitz jr or CEO.

[Wouter]

If Jos kept to himself, like he should have, none of this would have happened.
Instead, an internal investigation which already cleared Horner of any wrongdoing would have remained internal and things would have been much more quiet. But clearly, he did not act alone and it was approved by someone from the top, either Mateschitz jr or CEO.

.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you think Jos is guilty of all this.

Do you have any idea how many times Helmut Marko has said that there needs to be peace in the team
because things can no longer work like this?!

Do you have any idea how many times Max has said that he wants peace in the team and when that returns he sees no reason to leave?!

And do you know how much time it's been since both of them said that?!

[Vanja #66]

It doesn't surprise me at all that you think Jos is guilty of all this.

Do you have any idea how many times Helmut Marko has said that there needs to be peace in the team
because things can no longer work like this?!

Do you have any idea how many times Max has said that he wants peace in the team and when that returns he sees no reason to leave?!

And do you know how much time it's been since both of them said that?!

And with all the pleads for peace Jos goes to Dutch newspaper and starts a fire tornado? Flawless logic

[Paa]

If Jos kept to himself, like he should have, none of this would have happened.
Instead, an internal investigation which already cleared Horner of any wrongdoing would have remained internal and things would have been much more quiet. But clearly, he did not act alone and it was approved by someone from the top, either Mateschitz jr or CEO.

.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you think Jos is guilty of all this.

Do you have any idea how many times Helmut Marko has said that there needs to be peace in the team
because things can no longer work like this?!

Do you have any idea how many times Max has said that he wants peace in the team and when that returns he sees no reason to leave?!

And do you know how much time it's been since both of them said that?!

Publicly crying to the media about wanting peace is not the way to have it.
I'm not on the side with Horner on this, but don't have to pretend that the other side is innocent.
If they really wanted peace, they would discuss this behind closed doors.

[Dunlay]

Newey not mentioning H Marko with one single word, in his departure statement

.

No mention of Marko? Seems like he is leaving because of Marko.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GMe7u_rWMAA ... me=900x900

.
Interesting, good spots! But it must be all about Horner, right?

.
I assume you read in detail what Newey wrote in his letter.
.

Oracle Red Bull Racing Chief Technical Officer Adrian Newey said: “Ever since I was a young boy, I wanted to be a designer of fast cars. My dream was to be an engineer in Formula One, and I’ve been lucky enough to make that dream a reality. For almost two decades it has been my great honour to have played a key role in Red Bull Racing’s progress from upstart newcomer to multiple title-winning Team. However, I feel now is an opportune moment to hand that baton over to others and to seek new challenges for myself. In the interim, the final stages of development of RB17 are upon us, so for the remainder of my time with the Team my focus will lie there.

I would like to thank the many amazing people I have worked with at Red Bull in our journey over the last 18 years for their talent, dedication and hard work.
It has been a real privilege, and I am confident that the engineering Team are well prepared for the work going into the final evolution of the car under the four-year period of this regulation set.

On a personal note, I would also like to thank the shareholders, the late Dietrich Mateschitz, Mark Mateschitz and Chalerm Yoovidhya for their unwavering support during my time at Red Bull,
and Christian, who has not only been my business partner but also a friend of our respective families.
Also, thanks to Oliver Mintzlaff for his stewardship and Eddie Jordan, my close friend and manager."

.
Who has not only been = Past tense while he is still working with him!

And "the many amazing people": Marko, Drivers, his design team, etc.

Oliver finds a mention, who is with Red Bull for relatively shorter duration than Marko and got connected to racing team after becoming CEO recently, but not Marko.

Oh on the grammar part. "Has been" is present perfect continuous. Meaningful, something that started in the past and continuing.

[Watto]

If Jos kept to himself, like he should have, none of this would have happened.
Instead, an internal investigation which already cleared Horner of any wrongdoing would have remained internal and things would have been much more quiet. But clearly, he did not act alone and it was approved by someone from the top, either Mateschitz jr or CEO.

.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you think Jos is guilty of all this.

Do you have any idea how many times Helmut Marko has said that there needs to be peace in the team
because things can no longer work like this?!

Do you have any idea how many times Max has said that he wants peace in the team and when that returns he sees no reason to leave?!

And do you know how much time it's been since both of them said that?!

Publicly crying to the media about wanting peace is not the way to have it.
I'm not on the side with Horner on this, but don't have to pretend that the other side is innocent.
If they really wanted peace, they would discuss this behind closed doors.

Agree this stuff is better handled behind closed doorts.

Jos could easily say nothing or just say Max is enjoying a dominate RB20 having the fastest car as Marko has recently and if there is an issue he had deal with it through the team privately

Only creates more speculation when i I think Neweys departure on its own would raise questions on what Max does

[Cs98]

If Jos kept to himself, like he should have, none of this would have happened.
Instead, an internal investigation which already cleared Horner of any wrongdoing would have remained internal and things would have been much more quiet. But clearly, he did not act alone and it was approved by someone from the top, either Mateschitz jr or CEO.

.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you think Jos is guilty of all this.

Do you have any idea how many times Helmut Marko has said that there needs to be peace in the team
because things can no longer work like this?!

Do you have any idea how many times Max has said that he wants peace in the team and when that returns he sees no reason to leave?!

And do you know how much time it's been since both of them said that?!

Publicly crying to the media about wanting peace is not the way to have it.
I'm not on the side with Horner on this, but don't have to pretend that the other side is innocent.
If they really wanted peace, they would discuss this behind closed doors.

Jos may be an unsavoury character but there's no equivalence when it comes to him and Horner on this. Horner's actions and the lack of accountability for those actions is what got us here.

[Dunlay]

.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you think Jos is guilty of all this.

Do you have any idea how many times Helmut Marko has said that there needs to be peace in the team
because things can no longer work like this?!

Do you have any idea how many times Max has said that he wants peace in the team and when that returns he sees no reason to leave?!

And do you know how much time it's been since both of them said that?!

Publicly crying to the media about wanting peace is not the way to have it.
I'm not on the side with Horner on this, but don't have to pretend that the other side is innocent.
If they really wanted peace, they would discuss this behind closed doors.

Agree this stuff is better handled behind closed doorts.

Jos could easily say nothing or just say Max is enjoying a dominate RB20 having the fastest car as Marko has recently and if there is an issue he had deal with it through the team privately

Only creates more speculation when i I think Neweys departure on its own would raise questions on what Max does

Jos had no business nosing in Red Bull matters. But true to his personality, he went out barking like a stray dog, calling for Horner's head. We still do not have clarity on who leaked the chsts, which was alleged to be Marko and then suddenly, Max jumps in to save Matko who was almost fired. So they together played it dirty and then kept asking for "peace". Not sure what "peace" meant here. I don't think the feud is over. Now that their, supposedly, the most important asset is out, Horner would be in "nothing to lose anymore" mode. Red Bull can survive, without success for a while, but not Max. So, either he should convince his father and Marko to stay quiet or look another team that can help him win. He would be the biggest loser if the team goes down in performance.

[Wouter]

Publicly crying to the media about wanting peace is not the way to have it.
I'm not on the side with Horner on this, but don't have to pretend that the other side is innocent.
If they really wanted peace, they would discuss this behind closed doors.

.
Agree this stuff is better handled behind closed doorts.

Jos could easily say nothing or just say Max is enjoying a dominate RB20 having the fastest car as Marko has recently and if there is an issue he had deal with it through the team privately

Only creates more speculation when i I think Neweys departure on its own would raise questions on what Max does

.
Jos had no business nosing in Red Bull matters. But true to his personality, he went out barking like a stray dog, calling for Horner's head. We still do not have clarity on who leaked the chsts, which was alleged to be Marko and then suddenly, Max jumps in to save Matko who was almost fired. So they together played it dirty and then kept asking for "peace". Not sure what "peace" meant here. I don't think the feud is over. Now that their, supposedly, the most important asset is out, Horner would be in "nothing to lose anymore" mode. Red Bull can survive, without success for a while, but not Max. So, either he should convince his father and Marko to stay quiet or look another team that can help him win. He would be the biggest loser if the team goes down in performance.

.
This is the world upside down! I can't believe what I just read!

[f1isgood]

.
It doesn't surprise me at all that you think Jos is guilty of all this.

Do you have any idea how many times Helmut Marko has said that there needs to be peace in the team
because things can no longer work like this?!

Do you have any idea how many times Max has said that he wants peace in the team and when that returns he sees no reason to leave?!

And do you know how much time it's been since both of them said that?!

Publicly crying to the media about wanting peace is not the way to have it.
I'm not on the side with Horner on this, but don't have to pretend that the other side is innocent.
If they really wanted peace, they would discuss this behind closed doors.

Jos may be an unsavoury character but there's no equivalence when it comes to him and Horner on this. Horner's actions and the lack of accountability for those actions is what got us here.

I am sorry but for what it's worth don't even know the full story yet. This is your perception of events. Jos has a history that was detailed out just today and it doesn't matter what Horner has or hasn't done. What Jos is doing is incorrect by running his mouth and peddling toxicity.