Silly Season 2013/14

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zere
zere
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Joined: 01 Nov 2013, 23:16

Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Aesto wrote:On Raikkonen's replacement: [...] Sauber still has a small chance of beating FI if they score big, so they won't release Hülkenberg early (also, Sirotkin doesn't have a Super License). [...]
Hang on, if I remember correctly Hulk has already nullified his contract with Sauber mid-season when they were not able to pay himm and he is now only racing on a race-to-race basis.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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and that's how Barrichello [stronger driver than a never f1 race driven Sirotkin still in the midst of puberty] suddenly appears at the USGP and the BrazilGP! :mrgreen:
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Aesto
Aesto
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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zere wrote:
Aesto wrote:On Raikkonen's replacement: [...] Sauber still has a small chance of beating FI if they score big, so they won't release Hülkenberg early (also, Sirotkin doesn't have a Super License). [...]
Hang on, if I remember correctly Hulk has already nullified his contract with Sauber mid-season when they were not able to pay himm and he is now only racing on a race-to-race basis.
I thought about that, but there is very little actual information (as opposed to wild speculation) about Hülkenberg's issues with Sauber :/

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turbof1
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Magnussen top favorite to have the Perez seat in 2014:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111221
#AeroFrodo

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iotar__
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Joined: 28 Sep 2012, 12:31

Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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turbof1 wrote:Magnussen top favorite to have the Perez seat in 2014:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111221
Looks like McL "senior" staff might be panicking enough after horrible season to find scapegoats: "Although it had appeared in Abu Dhabi that Sergio Perez was closing in on a new deal following some strong performances, his lacklustre pace at Yas Marina prompted fresh questions about his future."
It means: Perez's good driving in India was a problem so they waited a bit. One race deciding everything? Only if it's about internal conflicts or excuses.

"Senior figures in McLaren believe Perez has proved this year that he does not have the skill-set to flourish under new rules that will add complexity to F1."
This part fits earlier theory that they partly hired him expecting top car and tyre management to be crucial like it was in the first part of 2013. Since Perez had talent in that direction they expected it would counter any one lap speed deficiencies. After change of approach to conservative for 2014 by Pirelli it may no longer be the case.

However they try to spin it in controlled leaks it would be another McLaren driver management failure - after Alonso, Kovalainen now Perez. Also based on their logic they should be firing Button with his insufficient speed and after longer "strings of bad results" in the past. If they prefer Magnussen, fine but this nameless, selective facts selling through journalists is pretty low.

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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turbof1 wrote:Magnussen top favorite to have the Perez seat in 2014:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111221
the outfit was unimpressed about how his race in Abu Dhabi compared to that of Jenson Button, who had been forced to pit for a new nose early on.

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh even publicly said that Perez's result there was "disappointing", while deliberately praising Button's form on a weekend when the team had been expected to take a decent haul of points.
well this just sinks all the respect for the Mclaren team for me.
Praising a well-experienced driver that couldn't qualify better then 13th [got 12 thanks to the DSQ of the lotus in front],
that drove his own wing to shreds and couldnt land a better spot then 12th,
while the less experienced team member in a new environment lands a 9th after qualifiying in the top 10 and even better in Q2, and saying he's disappointing - is the world turned upside down completely :wtf: :wtf:
If they're really disappoint in Cheko, i hope he'll switch with Alonso and drives them to shreds in a Ferrari.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

JimClarkFan
JimClarkFan
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Joined: 18 Mar 2012, 23:31

Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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Manoah2u wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Magnussen top favorite to have the Perez seat in 2014:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111221
the outfit was unimpressed about how his race in Abu Dhabi compared to that of Jenson Button, who had been forced to pit for a new nose early on.

McLaren team principal Martin Whitmarsh even publicly said that Perez's result there was "disappointing", while deliberately praising Button's form on a weekend when the team had been expected to take a decent haul of points.
well this just sinks all the respect for the Mclaren team for me.
Praising a well-experienced driver that couldn't qualify better then 13th [got 12 thanks to the DSQ of the lotus in front],
that drove his own wing to shreds and couldnt land a better spot then 12th,
while the less experienced team member in a new environment lands a 9th after qualifiying in the top 10 and even better in Q2, and saying he's disappointing - is the world turned upside down completely :wtf: :wtf:
If they're really disappoint in Cheko, i hope he'll switch with Alonso and drives them to shreds in a Ferrari.
More bad management from Mclaren, the way Mclaren they are behaving at the moment is a bit of a disgrace. Would Ross Brawn or Christian Horner act in such a way. It is important that their current drivers know there are others in waiting eager to take their place but there is a fine line between promoting good performances and inhibiting it. There is a quote in the film moneyball by the general manager in reference to the sacking/transfer of players from the club which seems apt for this situation...

''Would you rather get one shot in the head or five in the chest and bleed to death?''

Mclaren should take note; if they are going to get rid of Sergio or Button, they ought to be clear and upfront. By dragging it out they put undue pressure, and undue stress on their drivers which could inhibit performance - we have seen how Massa has performed now that he is off the leash.

Additionally it does no favours for a drivers career prospects if they are lead to believe they have a drive and then have the rug is pulled from beneath them. The result could be having no drive at all next year. It is bad form all around.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Perez simply isn't good enough, and that much became crystal clear quite a few races ago. If I was a team boss in my mind he would have been out at Monaco. When you've got a driver who doesn't respond to poor performances by driving fast and consistently, but by desperately ill-judged overtaking manoeuvres that put him out of the race - probably in a desperate attempt to make himself look like a 'racer' - then it's clear what you're dealing with. A driver who simply cannot handle the consistent mental pressures of driving in a race. Too many times Martin Whitmarsh and McLaren have had to defend his driving this season.

Yes, you'll get a few decent races and a purple patch that might lead some people who should know better to believe everything is OK (those at Autosport spring to mind), but of course, it never is. Grosjean and Maldonado are the other two drivers in Formula 1 who spring to mind there.

McLaren know fine well the car isn't good enough, but your team mate is your benchmark and Perez simply hasn't been up to the job on that score. He just doesn't have the mental wherewithall to be consistent enough. If he has problems now what will he be like with a completely new engine, new chassis, a new driving style to develop and with even more mental work to do in the cockpit?

i70q7m7ghw
i70q7m7ghw
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Location: ...

Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Look at the finishing position in Abu Dhabi is not enough, Perez should have been 5th at least, he was just too slow. The point being made about Button's performance, was that despite making the error that cost him his front wing and forced a slower 1 stop strategy, he still only finished 10 seconds down the road to Perez. Now if you take on-board that many here believe Button to be slower than average, where exactly does that put Perez?

Manoah2u
Manoah2u
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Diesel wrote:Look at the finishing position in Abu Dhabi is not enough, Perez should have been 5th at least, he was just too slow. The point being made about Button's performance, was that despite making the error that cost him his front wing and forced a slower 1 stop strategy, he still only finished 10 seconds down the road to Perez. Now if you take on-board that many here believe Button to be slower than average, where exactly does that put Perez?
and based upon what should 5th be at least?

2 insanely faster Redbulls,
2 much faster Lotuses,
2 much faster Mercedeses,
2 faster Ferrari's.

so if anything, 9th would be the only reasonable spot to look at, which is EXACTLY where Perez homed in his dog-awful Mclaren. the team at most is annoyed Force India ended in front of them, with them being afraid they'll pass them in the WCC.
But who's fault is that? The drivers not performing well? or Mclaren giving them a car that they'll need to worry about ending 6th in the WCC and having to put 11 and 12 on the cars next year?

if you concider pastor maldonado belonging at the back of the field, then where does it put button that he ended behind him?

Mclaren has nobody to blame but themselves. They still haven't realised Hamilton left because the team is dropping the ball in too many fields? Even if Hamilton would be in that car this year would have meant squad for them. And that would have made Hamilton leave most certainly - quite the opposite of arrogantly stating Lewis would see this year he'd made a mistake in going for Merc instead of staying with MCL.

Perez is nowhere near the level of Hamilton or Alonso. But he atleast should be provided material to grow into the likes of a Rosberg or Button. Perez 1st year at Sauber wasn't the best either. But the second year showed his potential.
Should go the same with MCL.
"Explain the ending to F1 in football terms"
"Hamilton was beating Verstappen 7-0, then the ref decided F%$& rules, next goal wins
while also sending off 4 Hamilton players to make it more interesting"

Richard
Richard
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Location: UK

Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Many teams change drivers in a ruthless manner, and the reasons are often opaque and puzzling. We've even seen WDC drivers sacked in their championship year, so Perez potentially losing his seat is small beer, another cog in the F1 machine alongside the trail of dumped TR drivers.

IMHO McLaren tried to take a gamble last year with both car and driver. Both were hoped to be radically disruptive. Neither were, so it appears both will be unceremoniously dumped over the winter.

I think Perez lost out due to bad timing. I can imagine a Hamilton/Perez combination with the older driver leading the cause, and the younger providing moments of excitement. He might have managed a few years like that (after all Kovalainen seemed to hang around for ages without even providing excitement). Unfortunately for Perez he isn't sheltered from attention by the other driver fighting for the WDC. Points are now rare at McLaren so they don't have the luxury of carrying a driver who is young and makes mistakes.

So yes I feel sorry for Perez if he goes, it's his bad luck to join a team when there wasn't any comfort room. Its the old maxim that you find out who's exposed when the tide goes out.

Anyway, who says Perez is going? To my mind its telling that McLaren are struggling to find someone they deem a suitable replacement. None of the big boys seem to be free in 2014, and signing Hulk or another midfield driver isn't going to rescue the team. So why not stick with Perez, see if the gamble might pay off next year? After all the alternatives are just another spin of the roulette wheel with no certainty of a better outcome.

Perhaps there's the nagging doubt that some young kid in the young driver programme might charge to the rescue. Its irrational to think that a young kid could out perform an established driver isn't it? Hang on a second, there was a kid a few years ago who did just that, not to mention that schoolboy with is finger at RB. So maybe Whitmarsh is tempted to spin that roulette wheel one more time.

Then the problem is how to make space for the new kid. Button isn't doing well either, but at least Button is a good fit for the team, the sponsors love him, his advertising profile in the UK is as high as Hamilton. When Button messes up the sponsors are beguiled by his demeanour and distracted when he asks if they've been introduced to his girlfriend, did I mention she's a lingerie model? I see your glass is empty, let me get you like another. Now before we meet Jessica, have I told you about the time I went partying with Coulthard and Simone Abdelnour .....

So I can see why Perez might get the boot and agree that it could be seen as unfair that he hasn't had a decent chance to establish himself. However that's how F1 has always worked. There'll be another one along soon.

munudeges
munudeges
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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If you don't consider a drive at McLaren a decent chance to establish himself then I don't know what would be. Perez simply isn't mentally tough enough to stick with it for an entire race and what's more his team have had to defend him in the face of some idiotic manoevres this season in an attempt to make himself look like a bit of a racer.

Blaming the car is laughable because he simply is nowhere near where Button was at Abu Dhabi speed-wise - and that's not the only race he's been questionable at. McLaren cannot afford to nurse-maid a driver who isn't good enough next season through all the difficulties they will have with the new regulations. McLaren haven't quite sunk to where Williams now are.

Aesto
Aesto
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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If McLaren will fire Perez they will do so because they can. They are an extremely successful, and therefore desirable team. They want a driver who can win championships for them, and unless their car is at least equal to the other best car, Button can't do that. Perez definitely can't, otherwise he would have at least beaten Button. Alonso can, but there is no guarantee they will get him for 2015 or later. So, why not give Magnussen a chance? If he's good enough, great, don't have to fork out the money to get Alonso. If he's not good enough - well, no problem, they'll move on and try Vandoorne/Hülkenberg/Grosjean/Bottas/Bianchi/whoever.

The truly great drivers impress right out the box. Clark, Senna, Schumacher, etc. - all of those drivers shocked everyone right from their first race. McLaren now had one year to determine that Perez isn't one of them. They can afford to move on and try out someone else.

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ringo
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Re: Vodafone McLaren Mercedes 2013

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iotar__ wrote:
turbof1 wrote:Magnussen top favorite to have the Perez seat in 2014:
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/111221
Looks like McL "senior" staff might be panicking enough after horrible season to find scapegoats: "Although it had appeared in Abu Dhabi that Sergio Perez was closing in on a new deal following some strong performances, his lacklustre pace at Yas Marina prompted fresh questions about his future."
It means: Perez's good driving in India was a problem so they waited a bit. One race deciding everything? Only if it's about internal conflicts or excuses.

"Senior figures in McLaren believe Perez has proved this year that he does not have the skill-set to flourish under new rules that will add complexity to F1."
This part fits earlier theory that they partly hired him expecting top car and tyre management to be crucial like it was in the first part of 2013. Since Perez had talent in that direction they expected it would counter any one lap speed deficiencies. After change of approach to conservative for 2014 by Pirelli it may no longer be the case.

However they try to spin it in controlled leaks it would be another McLaren driver management failure - after Alonso, Kovalainen now Perez. Also based on their logic they should be firing Button with his insufficient speed and after longer "strings of bad results" in the past. If they prefer Magnussen, fine but this nameless, selective facts selling through journalists is pretty low.
Don't get too carried away. Autosport has it's own agenda, and this is why that article is written in that manner.
they are trying to stir sh*t up.
For Sure!!

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FW17
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Re: Silly Season 2013/14

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Hope the magnussen kid doesn't embarrass himself as his father.